Let's play "Name That Sound"

dtw · 08-18-2011, 09:41 PM

3.2L engine. New to me, 92k, suspected recent oil overfill. Haven't pulled the valve covers yet, so I can't rule out a loose valve or broken head stud yet. Let's hear what the brain trust thinks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emfvPkb43LY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

DRACO A5OG · DRACO A5OG's Garage

Remove the Fan and AC belt if you have it and try again.

It may be the chain tensioners. Get a Stethescope from HB and listen for which side it may be coming from.

Over fill may just be a coincedense.

What Brand and Type of oil are you using?

Jim

www.youtube.com/watch?v=emfvPkb43LY&feature=player_detailpage

slodave · slodave's Garage

You sure all the plugs are in correctly? Hard to tell, but almost sounds like it's firing on 5 cyls.

Kagan · 08-18-2011, 11:13 PM

It looks like one of the chain tensioners to me.

slodave · slodave's Garage

I can't remember what it sounded like when one of my tensioners failed. Probably a good idea to listen to each chain box with a stethoscope or at least a long stick/screwdriver - put your ear to it.

The above just sounds a bit like when I managed to miss the #3 plug with the wire, even thought it felt like a good connection. The 911 sounded and felt like a VW.

Don't run the engine too much longer, try and get the tools to diagnose all together and do as much as you can with the engine running as little as possible. Good luck!

gamin · 08-19-2011, 02:27 AM

I had a chain tensioner fail on my 88 3.2. It didn't sound anything like the engine in post #2. In fact, it didn't make noise until just off idle and it went away around 2000 rpm. Luckily no damage. The tensioners can be changed with the engine in the car with partial drop but it is a bit of a pita.

NOLAsc · NOLAsc's Garage

When you get that stethoscope or long screwdriver, try listening to the distributor too. Or maybe pull the cap and see if the rotor has been scraping the cap contacts.

I don't remember it being that loud before I rebuilt my dizzy, but I had a lot of play in the shaft and there was definitely a ticking sound.

Flat6pac · 08-19-2011, 09:44 AM

Because its a Carrera, I think the biggest decision you have is weather it is rod bearing 2 or 5. Dont keep running it.
Bruce

Por_sha911 · Por_sha911's Garage

Besides the clacking, I'm hearing a whining that sounds like something was straining. I seriously doubt its a loose valve. I also don't think you should run it until you find the problem.

dtw · 08-19-2011, 10:31 PM

Pelicaners,
The car is 'new to me'. The suspected overfill is my diagnosis after listening to the PO's account of "driving for a little while, then massive smoke, and poor running". This was corroborated by finding a ton of oil in the sump and tank, as well as badly oiled/fouled plugs. The video you see is me starting it up for the first time after running a compression test (passed with flying colors, all in range of 150 psi) and inspecting the drain plugs (pristine). I put in new plugs and fresh 20W50.

The noise sounds more like escaping gases from somewhere than a metallic noise, so I am tending to discount the loose valve and rod bearing possibilities. It also sounds like it is isolated to one hole, so I am also discounting chain tensioner and fan issues. My money is on head studs right now. Unfortunately, I won't be able to get back to the car until Sunday.

Don't worry, the car is not being driven right now...among other things, the throttle rod between the transmission and engine bell cranks is missing. Anybody feel like sending me one?? The car also needs a front pan job. Been almost nine years since I did that job.

dtw · 08-20-2011, 01:47 PM

So finishing up some work early this afternoon, I headed out to log some time on the new car. All head studs intact on lower 1-3. Found one loose exhaust valve, tightened that up. Pulled the alternator belt. Noise is still there, unchanged. Next up, check the lower 4-6, then upper 1-6. That'll have to wait until tomorrow.

DUK · 08-20-2011, 02:15 PM

I'm guessing a cyl. to head leak.

slodave · slodave's Garage

Have you made sure the plug wires are seated correctly? Really can't hurt.

dtw · 08-20-2011, 03:49 PM

Yup! Twice. Thanks Dave!

Quote:

Have you made sure the plug wires are seated correctly? Really can't hurt.

VaSteve · 08-20-2011, 03:55 PM

Subscribed since I'm curious. Sounds like a baseball card in the spokes.

That video is like the Blair Witch Project.

dtw · 08-20-2011, 04:13 PM

Midnight in my driveway

Quote:

Subscribed since I'm curious. Sounds like a baseball card in the spokes.

That video is like the Blair Witch Project.

DUK · 08-20-2011, 05:11 PM

Are all the plugs tight?

pete3799 · pete3799's Garage

Exhaust leak?

dtw · 08-21-2011, 06:37 PM

Elusive. Reinstalled all the plugs then checked firing order. Everything was correct. Checked the rest of the head studs and all the valve lash. All good. Cut open the old oil filter, perfectly normal.

Now I am working on getting to the chain cases so I can inspect the chain tensioners.

dtw · 08-23-2011, 10:39 AM

OK, here's the list of what I've checked/done:
-reinstalled plugs (checked for cross threading on removal, no signs)
-checked firing order - OK
-checked cap/rotor - OK
-checked head studs and inspected under engine for combustion leaks - OK
-checked valve lash - OK
-checked oil filter innards - OK
-checked drain plugs - OK
-disconnected fan/alternator - OK
-checked tensioners - OK
-inspected chain ramps, sprockets, idlers - OK

Last night I had a look at the chain tensioners, they were not fully compressed at all and I could not deflect the plunger with a screwdriver and plenty of force applied downward. Based on everything above, and the fact that this sound is not really present at idle, but manifests under load, am I looking at a teardown? If so, and a rod has failed, what are the chances of the crank surviving?

Tensioner on 1-2-3 bank:

Tensioner on 4-5-6 bank: