random orbital buffers

[MGN54]

Hey all,

I have decided to get a random orbital polisher/buffer. Noticed in the recent Griot's catalogue that they now offer a pneumatic one that looks pretty nice for $179. Ouch. Does anyone know if this is a dual action sander that he is offering at a rediculous price (as if most of his stuff). I hit the local Lowes and found the Porter-Cable RO polisher for $109 and it comes with the foam pad. They also have a nice looking Porter Cable dual action pneumatic sander for $59. Would have to get the foam pad for it. Anyone have any experience with these? Feel the need to do some serious detailing on my week off!

Mark

[MarkY]

Be veeeeeeery careful when using a RO buffer on your car. Go and pick up some fender in a junkyard and practice on that first. If you're really set on doing this, pick up a Porter Cable from Lowe's or Home Depot.

A pneumatic would work if you have the compressor capacity. I wouldn't buy squat from Griot's, they're so overpriced it's not funny. Most of their stuff is just repackaged stuff you can get else ware for a lot less.

[bhaubold]

Mark,

I've been using an electric Porta Cable RO buffer for the last three years. I wouldn't wax any car without it. It applys wax much better than you can by hand.

You can get three different types of pads and with different products you can do some real nice detail work. It's very hard to do any damage with these machines.

I'm sold on them.

[Brian993]

Are these the big 12 in round buffers or the smaller type. I have never used a buffer before. I have always been afraid of doing damage, but I am thinking about it. Any tips or precautions?

[MGN54]

I found some information at www.properautocare.com regarding buffers, especially the porter-cable and different pads you can use. I think that with a random orbital you are pretty safe but will take care with it. Griot's is definitely overpriced. I found the porter cable at lowes for $109 but it didn't have the hook and loop pad which would e very nice. I'm still researching. Thank you all for your input.

Mark

[SteveStromberg]

I have a Cyclo It works really Good, It should it cost $350 from Aircraft Supply. It is a two pads set up ,It will not burn the paint But you need to replace the pads often . Steve See: http://www.properautocare.com/cy-pol.html

[JoeF]

A while back I asked a body shop guy about getting and using a RO polisher. He told me to be extremely careful if I didnt know what I was doing as it was easy to do more damage than good.
He also told me to go out and buy one of those inexpensive polishers you find at RS Strauss or PEP Boys. His reasoning was that it wouldnt be too powerful and I probably wouldnt hurt a paint since you cant press down hard with out stoping it. I bought one of those cheap models. It worked great! No swirl marks, no scratches, mirror finish! You probably only need a real expensive machine if you are going to wax alot of cars and are worried about burning out the polisher.
JoeF

[MGN54]

Joe,
Thanks for the info. I looked at a $15 job at Walmart today. It was a 6 inch model-same as the porter cable. I might have bought it but they were out of all of the bonnets for that size. I was wondering how it would do. Paint is not in bad shape so I bet it would probably be ok. I have a friend who bought a craftsman 10" model but haven't had a chance to get by to see what kind of a job it is doing for him. I may just give the 15 buck job a try to see what it will do. Nice thing about the PC is the velcro pads- easy to change out etc I guess.

Mark

[vesnyder]

I have a black SC and needed something to assist with removing the swirls in the paint - I swear the PO drove through car washes! I bought a cheap 6" buffer from the local parts store and it has worked great.

[carnut169]

Guys- I detailed cars for years and do not know how you could damage the paint with an orbital buffer unless your paint was shot to begin with (too thin), or you were using some very abrasive compound. Even the 25lb commercial buffers could be left running in one spot for a long time (long long time) before anything bad would happen.
What you want to watch out for, and be careful when using is a high speed buffer. The high speed generates enough heat to damage your paint with the quickness- double so on a edge or crease. The high speed is also the very best tool for making paint glow and removing swirl marks or other scratches.
Oh, also- you guys w/ black cars (and everyone really)- if you use the cotton bonnets that come with the cheap buffers you will be putting more swirl marks in your car. Get a good buffer and use foam!

[JoeF]

Carnut,
The polisher I use has foam pads available for it, I use the foam to apply, and I was using the cotton or terry cloth bonnets to remove and polish. Should I be using foam to polish? Also, what are your product preferences? So far I have tried a zymol cleaner and wax, and a Mothers system, both worked well, but I am open to suggestions.
JoeF

[vesnyder]

Where can I find good 6" buffers? I am sensitive to that since I've had a bad experience with the cheap wax applicators that gave me marks I am still trying to remove. I've been looking around but have not found a good source?

[chuckr]

I am not a big fan of orbital buffers, it is an "art" to properly using one.I detail Porsches by hand.I was taught how to use the buffer but I was also shown the damage you can cause yourself, when you know how to use one it does a fantastic job, it is the learning curve that worries me.I get excellent results by hand, and,I also use Griots wax on some cars and it is very Porsche friendly(does an outstanding job) This is the best time to get a good coat of wax on your Porsche, spring rains are on the way and a good coat of wax will help when it comes time to clean up after a rain soaked drive !

[dtfastbear]

It might just be me, but it seems like there is a little confusion by some of the posters on this thread about what a "buffer" is, what an "orbital buffer" is and what a "random orbital buffer" is.

People have traditionally been scared of "buffers" or "orbital buffers" - scared because if not used properly they CAN burn the paint. These buffers simply spin in a circle. It would be like putting a pad on the end of a drill.

A Random Orbital buffer is a little more complicated. Its shafts spins not quite in a perfect circle, but instead, wobbles, for lack of a better term. This way, because it isn't spinning in perfect circles, heat does not tend to build up under a specific point on the buffer pad, even if you lean on it. It also, I think, reduces swirl marks because each rotation of the pad is slightly different than the one before it.

The random orbital polisher that Griot's sells is just a Porter Cable model. The following place had the lowest price I could find for the polisher at $109. It is the Porter Cable 7424. I ended up buying it from another place for $118 (allprotools.com or something like that) because it was back ordered for two weeks from toolmart and I was in a hurry.

http://www.toolmarts.com/product91.html

If you buy the polisher this way (i.e. not from Griot's) but want to use Griot's pads that Velcro on, you'll need the Velcro backing plate ($17) sold here:

http://store.yahoo.com/classic-motoring/porcabackit.html

This is the setup I have and it works nicely. You can just buy regular polishing pads to fit the porter-cable unit, also. This is a little better than the $199 Griot's solution, eh?

I would recommend only using an RO polisher, not the dime-store buffer.

My 2 cents,

Dean

[Porsche911NYC]

The Cyclo Dual-Head Orbital Polisher is the best out there. It's what the better detailing shops use, and what I used to win 2 First Place Trophies last year at the Old Westbury Concours. You can find it online at www.topoftheline.com for only $229. This is a great site, by the way; check out all the other neat stuff you can fill your garage with.

[JoeF]

MGN54,
I just want to make sure I didnt give you bad advice, I still recomend an inexpensive model polisher, what ever you do, make sure it is a RANDOM ORBIT polisher. I wasnt clear on that in my previous post. Inexpensive ones are out there if you look.
JoeF

[carnut169]

JoeF- you should be using foam to apply- this is where all the work is done. "Polishing" actually happens when the products are applied. Some products (Zymol for one) want you to keep buffing until the residue is gone... some want you to let it dry, and then wipe off the wax/ polish. Really, you should never use terry cloth on paint. It will scratch the paint- fortunately, most colors will not show the extremely fine scratches a terry cloth will leave, black will. I use the foam pad (different pads for compounds, polishes, and wax) and go back after with a diaper to remove any extra product.

Dean is correct about buffers- although most automotive buffers (even the cheap ones) are random orbital. While spinning they move in a vertical oval and a horizontal oval. These are the units that any idiot can use. It would be very very difficult to burn your paint w/ a RO buffer. Again, a high speed buffer (spins between 1500- 4000 rpm) will burn paint quickly but will also achieve the best results if an experienced detailer is using it.

Products? Geez- I think that they are really all pretty good. It depends on your car, your color, and how you plan on applying it. For my brother, who does not really care about cars, and hates to clean them, I would recommend Nu-Finish. It lasts a long time and is easy to apply. For me, I use Zymol (labor intensive, excellent finish) on my Porsche, 3M on my wife's Maxima, Meguiars gold class on others... again, it is best to try different products and see what works best for you. Unless it is absolutely necessary stay away from the abrasive rubbing compounds and you will not hurt anything trying different products.

[JoeF]

Carnut,
Thanks for the advice! I will lose the terry cloth and get diapers.
I have been delaying all detailing until the dust settles from construction on the garage. I will also have to wait for water restrictions to be lifted and we can wash cars again.
JoeF