White smoke and some oil coming out of exhaust! Please Help!

[Notay]

Hi My friend has a 911SC which has been sat for about 3 years. I have replaced the fuel and fuel filter, replaced oil with 10W40 plus filter and managed to get it started. The air filter has been removed temporarily to access the fuel pump bleeding valve.

In the first five minutes there was a foamy beige coloured fluid coming out of the exhaust (oil + water?) after which just oil - the exhaust smokes white throughout and if you rev the car the white smoke gets thicker even after the car is fully warmed up.

Any chance what this could be? I am guessing worn piston rings which may have either welded to the cylinder liner over time and as I have been turning the engine over it may have broken the rings.
Is there any short of check I can do on the engine to confirm it is piston rings or something else before removing the engine and inspecting?

I have uploaded a video on youtube showing the amount of smoke:

Porsche Targa with 911SC Engine White Smoke - YouTube

Many thanks
Notay

[richard003@wind]

too much oil....

[bklyn]

Notay I am sure the pros will chime in but first off make sure you filled your oil level the proper way, with the engine fully warmed up and running and on a flat the surface it should read about half way up the dip stick. Next the foam tan stuff, is most likely oil mixed with condensation from lack of running and not getting the engine run long and hot enough to burn it off. See if this helps.

[Joe Bob]

How much oil did you put in?

On the good part, you can rent it out as a mosquito killer....

[prschmn]

"fuel pump bleeding valve"? I'm guessing the exhaust is full of oil thats drained back after all those years. As other have said check your oil level properly.

[Notay]

Thanks for the replies - I have put in 8.5 litres of oil. The oil was changed when the engine was cold, which I admit is not the correct way to do it but had issues starting the car so just changed it.

the oil reads just below half on the dipstick.

[Josh D]

Originally Posted by Notay

the oil reads just below half on the dipstick.

At what engine temperature?

[dentist90]

Just to cover all the bases... you did drain both the engine and oil tank before refilling?

And that half-full on the dipstick isn't cold with the engine off I hope, or it is overfilled.

[Notay]

The dipstick reading was taking when the engine was nearly fully warmed - could not get a reading at fully warm temp since the car stalled - and did not restart. Possibly due to a couple of reasons - too much oil as nearly everyone here is suggesting hence filling spark plugs and also I noticed a weak battery caused possibly by bad alternator.

I drained both the engine and the oil tank - got loads of oil from the engine drain (~6 litres) but not as much from the tank (~1 litre). I should have just put in 7 litres i.e. replaced what I took out but followed the Haynes manual. Doh! This was done at cold because I was not sure of the oil condition at first and did not want to first start the engine on it just incase there was sludgy deposits/particles of which there was once it was drained.

Can someone kindly explain the oil system to me - why does the oil level get higher as the engine warms up - I cannot figure that out - maybe something simple that I have missed - I have always seen it drop in other cars but then again not all cars have dry sump.

I will take out say 1 litre of oil and try again. Thanks so far.

[Joe Bob]

Look up "dry sump"....google is your friend.

[schumicat]

re: your question, oil expands when it gets hotter. most things do. I don't think you overfilled it because usually you can put in 10 liters after draining and will need to add 1-2 more to get it up to normal level.

Originally Posted by Notay

The dipstick reading was taking when the engine was nearly fully warmed - could not get a reading at fully warm temp since the car stalled - and did not restart. Possibly due to a couple of reasons - too much oil as nearly everyone here is suggesting hence filling spark plugs and also I noticed a weak battery caused possibly by bad alternator.

I drained both the engine and the oil tank - got loads of oil from the engine drain (~6 litres) but not as much from the tank (~1 litre). I should have just put in 7 litres i.e. replaced what I took out but followed the Haynes manual. Doh! This was done at cold because I was not sure of the oil condition at first and did not want to first start the engine on it just incase there was sludgy deposits/particles of which there was once it was drained.

Can someone kindly explain the oil system to me - why does the oil level get higher as the engine warms up - I cannot figure that out - maybe something simple that I have missed - I have always seen it drop in other cars but then again not all cars have dry sump.

I will take out say 1 litre of oil and try again. Thanks so far.

[KNS]

It doesn't sound like you've overfilled at 8.5 liters, don't add any more yet. Also, sometimes when these cars have sat for a long time they will smoke quite a bit for a while. With running the smoke usually clears up.

As mentioned, check the oil with the engine running and warmed up - oil half way up the dipstick.

[dentist90]

On a normal fill I will put in 10L after draining. The system holds ~12L, but some of that remains in the front-mounted oil cooling lines. Usually the oil tank holds more of the oil, but if it has sat for a long time the oil will try to level itself by weeping back thru the oil pump.

There are two reasons why oil should be read warm and with the engine running. Warm oil will flow better, thus be pumped back to the oil tank more efficiently. The most important is related to the settling of oil into the engine case. The level is read in the oil tank and this level will not reach it's max untill the engine scavenge pump has had a chance to pump it there. Therefore the engine must be idling when level checked or it will read lower than it actually is. Some will also point out that thermal expansion of warmed oil will account for some volume increase, about .5L in a 12L system.
Your 8.5L should not have overfilled, but check to make sure if you filled it from what you thought was a 4L jug was not in fact a 5L jug. Happened to me... got a bonus L without realizing it. I think it's also possible that while sitting for so long oil might have leaked past worn valve guides and into the exhaust manifolds. It will burn off with 20mins of hot driving. Some here have suggested going out for a late night drive so the smoke will not attract attention.

[silver911rdb]

How about old fuel? Could moisture in the old fuel cause it to smoke white as well?

[Notay]

I really appreciate this forum - many thanks for your replies.

Following 'dentist90's' reply just checked the oil level when COLD - it is just on the tip of the dipstick - does that seem right?

Does the car 'sound' right aswell - having never worked on a porsche before I am not sure?

Cannot start car now since it is a little dark here in the UK - but will check tomorrow if I can plus battery needs recharging. I am going to check the following:
1) spark plugs to see if they are 'filled' with oil before starting
2) once started and warmed the oil level

If there is anything else you can recommend to check I will add it to the list. Thanks

[ant7]

hi,
i may be way off the mark here, but if all else checks out, check your brake servo and brake mastercylinder, if you have a leak, then what might be getting sucked into the engine via the brake servo vacuum pipe is brake fluid, this will burn with a white smoke.
hope this helps.
Anthony.

[Notay]

Just an update - checked the brake vacuum pipe - it is bone dry from both ends (engine side and brake servo side) - the brake fluid in the reservoir is still at max level.

Also checked the spark plugs - these are bone dry as well and have a slight tan colour to them.

This I cannot figure out. The white smoke is on cold startup so it cannot be oil in the exhaust - I was convinced it was the brake fluid because it made sense to be the cause of the problem because the brakes are really poor as well.
The car does feel responsive through the rev range.

Any ideas?

[RSTarga]

how long did you drive the car. If there is oil in the exhaust from sitting so long it will take a good 30min to an hour to completely burn out.

[psalt]

Notay,

Car sat for 3 years, oil absorbed water from the air, most of the oil in the tank drained into the crankcase (your 6 liters), cylinders filled with oil, some got past the rings, all equals..... white/ blue smoke out the tailpipe. Not surprising. It is quite normal for the 911 horizontally opposed engine to blow some white/blue smoke on start up for these reasons. You may have gummed up / frozen rings and/or rusted bores and the best advice is to get the engine hot, run it under load, run some Seafoam/Techron or other deposit cleaner through it, then change the oil again. Drive it under load for at least 100 miles. Then do a compression and leakdown test to see what you have.

[Notay]

Originally Posted by RSTarga

how long did you drive the car. If there is oil in the exhaust from sitting so long it will take a good 30min to an hour to completely burn out.

Can not drive the car as it is not road legal at the moment - so ran it in the drive for 20 mins before the battery died (alternator is bad).

I first thought it might be oil burning - but wouldn't that burn a blue smoke colour and not a white as in the video in my first post?