Is it worth rebuilding this 3.0 motor?

[nkotselas]

Hello everyone,

I ditched the old 3.0 a while back for a bit more displacement. It came out of a 78sc. Problem is, it got to motor meister and came back all torn apart in boxes. It would make loud noises on hard acceleration and it would go through gas like nothing.

I would love to take this opportunity to start and learn how these cars work. Some problems:

Cost
No garage/tools
No experience
No car to go into (yet)

From what I've read in some books, they tell me to budget just about as much as my mechanic would charge me, so where is the savings? It has about 170,000 miles on it. Does that mean the bottom end needs to be done as well?

If you guys have any advice please chime in. Am I getting ahead of myself of will it be worth it (financially and for fun )? I'm sure after an engine rebuild I would be able to do most maintenance myself (save some $$$). But I have a big 0 in mechanic experience. Is it possible to do an engine rebuild so soon?

[rfuerst911sc]

Here is my opinion yes the engine can and should be rebuilt. Having said that with zero experience I would not recommend you do it alone. Yes there are books out there that will help guide you but that is not enough. There are specialty tools that are required. You are in S.D. my recommendation is find someone local off this forum that has the knowledge and is willing to help you. Now you might be able to do the build correctly, make a new friend and have some fun. If nothing else that person can maybe help you determine if the engine is a basket case needing lot's of machine work ( $$$ ) or that many parts can be reused to keep the cost down. Just so you know a " cheap " rebuild will probably be in the range of 5,000-6,000 and that is quite conservative.

[Grady Clay]

Nick,

Considering the history of the engine, your first ‘order’ should be to inventory the engine parts.
It is possible that you may have a collection of unrelated and worn/broken/defective parts, not a rebuildable engine.
The exercise will be a good learning experience.

IF you have a mostly complete (but not 100%) 911SC engine, you might consider buying another (same year) core engine that is complete and not disassembled.
This will allow you to select the best parts to build one complete engine and have a few saleable parts remaining.

If this engine turns out to be a collage of junk 2.7 & 3.0 parts, start from scratch with another engine.

Keep in mind that any rebuild is going to require some (expensive) new parts.
There is no getting around bearings, rings, rod hardware, chains, gaskets, etc.
There is also the ‘subcontract’ work; head reconditioning, crank & rod reconditioning, etc.

Your list:
“Cost
No garage/tools
No experience
No car to go into (yet)"
Will need consideration.

Before you buy anything, start making lists – with costs.
The Bruce Anderson and Wayne Dempsey books are invaluable.
The Bentley on the 911SC will help.
You should get the PET CD listing all Porsche parts.

You will need a situation where you can handle the disassembled engine(s) easily.
A set of 5’ metal shelves (3’x4’) on casters works well and fits in the corner of someone’s garage.
You can make a plastic cover for the shelf unit. Keep everything oiled to prevent corrosion.

A 911SC engine isn’t overly ‘tool intensive’.
Regular hand tools are all you need (something everyone should have).
The few ‘special’ tools can be borrowed.

Experience is what you are getting.
This forum is your best resource.
Start yourself a “Personal Workshop Manual” for the project.
Include threads, scans, photos, copies and everything else to write your own manual.

Car not necessary (yet).


This can be a fun and satisfying project.

Best,
Grady

[MBAtarga]

Have you confirmed the engine parts in the boxes are actually for/from a 3.0?

Said company does apparently have a history of using parts the "fit", even though they don't belong. (EDIT: Grady posted prior to me hitting send. Why is he up so early in CO this morning?)

[lucittm]

I would not buy anything that has been touched by Motor Meister. I have never worked with them but their reputation on this board alone scares me enough to not deal with them. People complain loud and long about MM for a reason. You have so many other choices.

Mark

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by MBAtarga

Have you confirmed the engine parts in the boxes are actually for/from a 3.0?

Said company does apparently have a history of using parts the "fit", even though they don't belong. (EDIT: Grady posted prior to me hitting send. Why is he up so early in CO this morning?)

Since you have no experience in engine rebuilding at this point, I would not attempt to do a rebuild without a guidance from someone very familiar with 3.0 engine. With the Motormeister background, I would think twice before making this bold decision. Specially if they came back in several boxes from MM. Would you be able to distinguish between a good part from a bad part, identify as the correct crankshaft, connecting rods, pistons, etc. Do you even have a complete unit?

But, I would still encourage you to do an engine rebuild using a better engine than what you have. There is too much risk involve using your MM engine. I am a novice in engine rebuilding and doing a 3rd engine this year alone (maybe a 4th this winter) and I still keep calling Bruce A. and Mike B. once in a while for advises. HTH.

Tony

[GaryR]

Nick - no real reason to do it (no car), no garage, no tools, and no experience. I would give an emphatic no to the project unless you have a lot of money to waste and a nearby engine expert. The gasket set alone is about $300 IIRC...

[Melman]

Good advice ..I was in a similar situation a couple of years ago with a 340 Duster.....I started out rebuilding an old lawn mower and worked my way up .

[Winter]

[QUOTE=Grady Clay;6324893]Nick,

Considering the history of the engine, your first ‘order’ should be to inventory the engine parts.
It is possible that you may have a collection of unrelated and worn/broken/defective parts, not a rebuildable engine.
The exercise will be a good learning experience.

/QUOTE]

As usual Grady is spot on.

I'm no expert at rebuilding engines, but attacking mine is on my list, and I'm not intimidated, mostly because of people on this board, like Grady, who are truly amazing when it comes to solving problems and offering advice.

So, I'd say you can do this.

But you first better be very familiar with what you have given the Motor Meister provenance of your engine/parts.

Before you make any decisions, take Grady's advice and figure out exactly what you have. Might be worth getting a local Pelican involved along with a 6-pack for an "inventory party"

Good luck!

[nkotselas]

Thanks a lot guys.

To be completely honest, I haven't looked in the motor meister boxes since my dad picked them up months ago. I know that the mechanic said the transmission was so mangled it should never be rebuilt . He never said that about the engine so I hope that means its rebuild-able.

I will try to pick up the boxes from his shop on Monday. Money surely is a limiting factor so perhaps I could just look/inspect and research all the parts to know the purpose and condition. Would that make any sense? It would be free at least...

I think one comment mentioned that I don't buy this motor because of MM. It is already mine, we sent it up there. Do you still think its worth working on?

And now that I remember it, my mechanic said I could sell the motor for close to $2,000. I liked the sound of that figure, does that mean some parts are healthy? Or can even a ruined motor sell for $2,000?

[cudabnu]

Before you sent the motor in to MM it was probably worth $2k as a core, but now that MM has "been thru it" you may be lucky to get YOUR original parts back, they have a rep of swapping good parts for bad, may be the case with your tranny, you may get a few other peoples blown up bits and your good parts used in other peoples cars. So what you get back may not be saleable at all.

[boyt911sc]

Nick,

If you could find someone willing to buy all these engine pieces for $1000, take it and run. And don't forget to inform the buyer that they came from our friendly MM shop. On the other hand, I was lucky it was MM. Found a '77S roller with only 49 miles on it. You could still smell the leather inside the cabin. The owner sent his engine and transmission for repair to MM. To make the story short, the owner decided to forfeit the engine and transmission and didn't bother to get them back. Ten (10) years later, the owner almost gave the pristine roller to me for FREE. He just wanted to get rid of the bad memories about this car. BTW, I did pay him for the roller ($1500 pick-up). This is just one of the many horror stories you could hear about MM. You just saved yourself from disaster by asking for advise in this forum. Good luck.

Tony

[nkotselas]

These comments about the engine and motor meister aren't too encouraging but I guess they weren't unexpected either.

My mechanic did say close to 2,000 and shortly after someone offered 1,500. (My dad didn't want to sell it then). So is it possible that it actually is in ok shape? Or has nobody looked close enough?

[cudabnu]

Get everything back, inspect and post detailed pics.

[nick_911]

I am currently in the process of rebuilding my 81sc.
It's my first engine drop and first rebuild. I am capable of doing brake pads, oil change and most maintanence on cars but nothing close to this scale.
If I can do it, you should be ok.
Alot if people scared me off at first saying I'm mad and cant do it from my garage but the more I get into it the more I learn and realize it's not that hard and can't understand why people make it out to be so scary.
I've bought all the recommended books and have read and read and figure If the next guy can do it so can I.
What I recommend is Alot of patience as things take longer for a newbie and Alot of space as parts take up 3 times more room than a complete car.
My complete rebuild including specialty tools and all bearing and gaskets,Ssi's and muffler all from pp , machine shop for heads and case work I will be in it for about 10k.
The cheapest quote I got not including the new exhaust was $20-25k which is why I am doing it myself.
Give it a go , you might surprise yourself at what you can actually learn and it is a very simple motor in my opinion.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by GaryR

Nick - no real reason to do it (no car), no garage, no tools, and no experience. I would give an emphatic no to the project unless you have a lot of money to waste and a nearby engine expert. The gasket set alone is about $300 IIRC...

Nick,

Those people who have given you the go ahead signal have space to work, tools to use, a car to install the engine, and has money allocated for the project. Assuming you could overcome all these obstacles, where would you store the engine? Would you let it sit idle for the next 5 years till you get the money to buy a roller?

Like what our friend from down under said, it is not that complicated. But you have to be realistic about your situation. You'll will spend at least $2k to get this engine to run assuming all the parts sent to you are in good condition. If you borrow an engine stand and yoke from someone, you won't be able to return them back in months or years in your case. But it is not improbable to do. Unless you want to have something like this:



Tony

[Max2.0]

What??? Doesn't every Porschephile have an engine in their kitchen???

I do... well, at least parts of one! Where else do you heat up your parts for pressfit aplications???

[nkotselas]

haha my family wouldn't be too happy with that but I sure wouldn't mind. Perhaps I shouldn't, for now, the only space I could do it would be in our yard which isn't too smart.

Although I do like Nick's approach on it being doable. If you break it down to small steps, what ends up being difficult?

[Winter]

Again, inventory ALL of your parts. It's a waste of time discussing a rebuild when you don't even know what you have, what condition it is in and what is missing. . . .