911 3.2 Evidence of Accident

[dswc]

Hi Everyone, what is the best way to examine a 911 3.2 to see if it has ever got into an accident?

[Porchcar guy]

show me the carfax !

[McLovin]

There are lots of ways.

Paint meter to check for consistent paint thickness, overspray from a repaint, wrinkles in panels in the engine compartment and trunk compartment, proper body gaps, obvious signs of repaint (imperfections in the paint, tape lines, visible sanding marks), mismatched paint, missing stickers and labels, etc.

[dswc]

Thanks.

I'm a novice here, so bear with me. In terms of confirming whether a 3.2 is stock with original parts (in particular, the body), how many different places do I need to check and where? As a general matter, will each body part be coded with the VIN number?

[Porchcar guy]

What year is the 911. Normally in the older cars the VIN is in a few places....front trunk, left side of dash, under the kneepads. Carfax should show any accident the car has been in ...costs $15-20 bucks. Also have a PPI done by an independant appraiser for around $300 bucks...answer....priceless !!.

[McLovin]

At some point, cars sold in the US were required to have VIN stickers on almost all body panels - doors, trunk lid, engine lid, etc.

I know my 87 had them, my 88 also.

I don't know if the '84 had them. I don't think they did. I think the law started some time around '87 model year.

It's a small rectangular VIN sticker.

Someone experienced with used cars, paint, etc. can usually spot evidence of a repaint fairly easily. There are just a lot of telltale signs that you get conditioned to look for. It's actually fairly difficult to repaint a car, or parts of a car, and leave absolutely no clues. It's possible, but most body shops don't worry about leaving absolutely no clue behind. Remember, it only takes one tiny bit of overspray, or one little tape line in a hidden area, or very light sanding marks in a small spot only visible in certain light, to give away a repaint.

How much a novice can spot? Hard to say.

[dswc]

The car is an 89.

All great advice, thanks. I do want a PPI done but am afraid I don't have time. Also, I have bought used cars before (without seeing them) after having faith that the seller was honest.

I have some paperwork and have spoken with the mechanic that has done work to this vehicle over the past 5 years. He knows this car (last time he saw it was in the summer) and his recollection is that this car is sound, no mechanical issues and no rust/accident issues. But at the very least, was planning to inspect the vehicle prior to purchase.

[motogman]

Some things I look for...

Examine all of the rubber bits, i.e. around the windows, between panels by window frames etc. These areas typically have to be taped off and it is very difficult to get the tape 100% right so you will see areas where there is some paint on the rubber/frames etc.

Also, look up in the rear wheel wells. If a panel has been replaced there will sometimes be the cut away portion of the old metal. This may be the same when wheel flares have been 'upgraded' - others more knowledgeable than I on body upgrades can comment. Also if rear panels have been replaced the spot welds around the engine compartment opening may not be 'correct' - compare the two sides .... ask me how I know .

The areas that only show when you open panels (doors, front & rear hoods) can show tell tale over-spray and non-matching color if it wasn't a spectacular job.

All of that said, what is your interest in a car? I bought an 81 this year knowing the rear quarter and driver door had likely been replaced in about 91 (Car Fax indicated an accident and inspection evidence showed these were replaced). The paint is good but not perfect. But I bought the car to drive on a regular basis, park down town while having a beer with my buds and not worrying about too much (I have another I rarely take out of the garage). It has served very well, proving to be a very solid and reliable great running car. So just because it has some 'history', if the work was done right and your interest is aligned with the car, it may not be all bad.

[Peter Zimmermann]

Originally Posted by dswc

Hi Everyone, what is the best way to examine a 911 3.2 to see if it has ever got into an accident?

There are so many tricks regarding how and where to look to check for past damage, I'm afraid that the best that I can do is refer you to this link;

The Pre-Purchase Inspection by Peter Zimmermann - Rennlist Discussion Forums

If you read it carefully it might help you. Start with a walk-around, and do it twice. Check all the seams, left front fender to trunk lid, left front fender to gas filler flap, fender to door, etc...

[dswc]

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Peter Z., an honor to receive a response from you. I have your book so I will be sure to study it.

[haggis780]

Originally Posted by Porchcar guy

show me the carfax !

Don't trust the car fax have a good look yourself. The Carfax on my car was clean - when I got the car home and started looking closely there was evidence on a prior accident. Then I found a business card from the previous owner under the passenger seat - tracked the guy down through Facebook - he now lives in France - and he confirmed the car had had a hit in the rear.

Get on your coveralls and crawl all over and under car if you want to be sure......my 2 cents

[dswc]

Thank you. Do you think, generally, this will be revealed in a pre-purchase inspections? I don't really trust carfax as well.

[hcoles]

IMO it is hard to inspect a car you are working to purchase, too much emotion involved. A good paint and body person will very likely be able to tell where body work or repainting has been done. Just because a car has been bumped in a few places doesn't make it bad. A few dings gets you past the paranoid stage, I'd much rather have excellent mechanicals.

[tazzieman]

Originally Posted by hcoles

IMO it is hard to inspect a car you are working to purchase, too much emotion involved. A good paint and body person will very likely be able to tell where body work or repainting has been done. Just because a car has been bumped in a few places doesn't make it bad. A few dings gets you past the paranoid stage, I'd much rather have excellent mechanicals.

Hear hear! A car with no accident history is likely a garage queen and therefore suspect in other ways. But you don't want a car with the post accident rust issues or the inability to set an alignment...

[gregwils]

Originally Posted by hcoles

IMO it is hard to inspect a car you are working to purchase, too much emotion involved. A good paint and body person will very likely be able to tell where body work or repainting has been done. Just because a car has been bumped in a few places doesn't make it bad. A few dings gets you past the paranoid stage, I'd much rather have excellent mechanicals.

I agree too on both points - get a PPI, but a new quarter panel or fender doesn't mean the whole car is bad. There are enough good cars around to avoid one with tub damage. Use professional help, but get Pete's book and educate yourself.

[m110]

I sent you a pm as I have a reasonable checklist for examining 3.2 L cars.

[Icemaster]

Where are you? You can usually find someone on here who would be willing to lay eyes on it with you and provide a second opinion.

[grendiers]

Tough call though, I bought an '85 Carrera knowing that quite a bit of the front clip was replaced. It was welded-in early in it's life, carfax documented that accident. But, I bought the car anyway, was reasonably priced, and neither the PPI guy or myself could see any weld problems. After 5K miles, very happy with the purchase, outside of a couple of electrical problems now solved~!

[spooldup]

Paint work on a 70s or 80s car does not always spell crash damage. These were pre dent wizard years so look for structural damage.