Engine update

[CamB]

Ha! I will answer for Matt on this one - I know he is an MFI devotee and would never change it!!!

Also, funny how there are so many Australasian engine computers - I think MoTeC, Autronic, Haltec, Link (NZ product) and Wolf3d are all high quality local products...

I didn't think about the MSD options... http://www.msdignition.com/2000_1.htm seems to be the one. Summit says about $670.

So would this work? No advance in the distributors, fully map ignition as per MSD instructions?? What about... twin plug = 2 MSD units? That could cause serious $$$ and compatability problems. Could you have one of the programmable 7s and one regular MSD?

I have had a 964 distributor modified for optical pickup for approx US$150. I have no idea what it costs to modify the 964 distributor to the 2.7 case.

I mean, I am really interested in 2 things here:

1. the programable MSD unit might be much better than mechanical advance for carbed, MFI and CIS cars?

2. can this be combined with modifed 964 dizzy to provide cheapish twin plug?

Thoughts???

[beepbeep]

964 dizzy? What's that? A mechanical thing going round and round?? Ohhh...c'mon...it's 21:st century...all modern EFI's use computer-controled direct-fire.

Six wires going to six dual-pack coils...each feeding two spark-plugs per cylinder....no dizzy's, no contacts, no vacuum advance...no nothing...just pull out the friggin' distributor and cover the hole. Advance maps are held in flash-memory and can be reprogrammed at will. Just remember: don't be afraid of technology...!

[CamB]

I agree, but I'm trying to figure out how to do this as cheaply as possible.

Electromotive looks the cheapest (HPV-1 with timing control) - but for instance, a modified crank pulley (which incorporates a sensor wheel) for the Electromotive units is EXPENSIVE, based on the prices I have found. Even if you fabricate yourself it is not inexpensive ($120+). Something will always be required to do this job. And the Electromotive coil packs are $500+ each. 2 needed for twin-plug, remember.

Prices I found were about $1500 total, I think. Now probably I don't know a cheaper way, but think something using the 964 dist could be getting there.

OK, I admit it, mostly I get annoyed by the $500 each for the HPV-1s (no way your average modern 6 cylinder coil pack is $500 to replace) and the modified crank pulley/sensor kit ($460).

I'll go be quiet now

MSD has DIS systems I would contact them and explain what you are trying to do.
Just a thought.
Chris

[Matt Holcomb]

Cam is right, I am an MFI devotee, and I will never change. I'm driving history. I'm trying to preserve an era. Having said that, I don't exactly have a carbureted Ford Windsor V8 stuffed into the tail of my car!

I still don't think modern electronically-controlled systems offer the same throttle response as an engine with MFI. Of course, I won't be surprised if I'm proven wrong. If, at some stage, I need to rebuild my pump (it's on the cards!), I will shell out $2-4K to do so, knowing full well I could "upgrade" to a more cost-effective EFI system like MoTeC or Wolf.

These alternative, electronically-controlled systems sound like fun, it's just that they don't do it for me. As they say, different strokes for different folks.


Matt Holcomb
1974 911 Carrera 2.7 RoW
1975 Mercedes-Benz 280SE
Dedicated Homepage
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[Matt Holcomb]

Chris, Beepbeep,

I'm going to lower the CR to 9.8:1 and then try and make up for the loss in power by doing something to the air-intake system and the exhaust.

Even though I'm an MFI devotee, these EFI alternatives do sound interesting, so thanks for educating me!


Matt Holcomb
1974 911 Carrera 2.7 RoW
1975 Mercedes-Benz 280SE
Dedicated Homepage
Engine Rebuild Homepage
Porsche Owners Gallery Profile
Pelican Gallery Profile

Matt
I would contact the cam manufacture and ask them about the detonation issues. Also I would see if they recomend the cam you are using with the compression that you pressently have 11.5:1 or what ever it figured out to be.
Cause it shure sounds like your building to much cylinder pressure. Or run it on #2 diesel then you won't have to worry about ignition systems......hmmm SC Super Cummins not bad not bad.
Well had to throw that in.
I ran my drag car on the street with pump super with out detonation issues. 12.2:1 377cid chevy 10.50's @124 blah blah .

Also did it detonat when slowly accelerated on the dyno pulls?
Because you may also have an advance curve issue that is causing you problems. Or you may be sucking some oil into the combustion chamber. Or you may not be feeding it enough fuel to make it happy. I would put a set of EGT (exhaust gas temperature) sensors on it to see what kind or temperatures you are running.
Besides a bigger cam gives you that nice loping idle with higher compression ratio's.
Well best of luck.
Chris

[CamB]

I'm talking changing the timing only to electronic control - it will leave the MFI part alone and should preserve (or enhance) throttle response.

However, as you say - you are an MFI devotee and want to keep it "period-correct", so this would not be an option.

Cam

[Matt Holcomb]

Cam,

Actually, I don't mind the idea of ditching the distributor ...


Matt Holcomb
1974 911 Carrera 2.7 RoW
1975 Mercedes-Benz 280SE
Dedicated Homepage
Engine Rebuild Homepage
Porsche Owners Gallery Profile
Pelican Gallery Profile