CHP: Worst case scenario ???????
 

Worst case scenario with the CHP or any other law enforcement types regarding traffic matters only?

August, 1997:

Eastbound Highway 50 passed Placerville in my old 911SC when busted for speeding by oncoming CHP with alledged forward and rearward radar/x-ray while moving around a bend when we visually spot each other. CHP turns around and pulls me over and cites me for speeding and no front license plate.

Fine: about $250 with traffic school.

Fast Forward to March, 2002:

Same scenario, but different day and different Porsche.

What is going on with these guys? Is it just me or do all Porsche drivers get harassed or "special attention" from the boys in blue???

Please tell me your story????

JFITZOZ

My wife got a speeding ticket and beat it. I posted the info in the following thread.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61384

Hop it helps, Gary

Not to sound stupid, but were you speeding in those situations? And is it law for the front plate? I know tons of people who have got tickets from the boys in blue, and weren't driving Porsches. I guess what I am saying is that it may not be the car, but the way it is being driven???? Just a thought, not an accusation.

Shawn

jfitzoz,

Early last year, I was at a stop light wtg for the light to turn green so that I could make a left turn. I was feeling good as I had just had my blk 76 coupe detailed the day before. A Deputy Sherriff made a left turn and came very close to me (his position was 90 degrees to my right) well needless to say, I whispered a comment and I guess the guy could read my lips (after all he was close enough) he immediatley made a u-turn and nailed me for no seat belt. Ironically he allowed me to make a left turn and I pulled into a doughnut shop parking lot. He had me wait 20 minutes until backup showed up. I guess they wanted to teach this Porsche guy a lesson in respect (I am a 44 year old, white collar professional, 5'10" far from intimidating). I am now "birddogged" at least once every 2 weeks on the way to work. Conversely, when I drive my F-150 4x4 never get a second look...:rolleyes:

Bob

LOL...try having the only 911 in town full of chevys, pontiacs, and pickup trucks...to say the least, I stand out! So, learned early to mind my manners, clear the highway both ways before opening her up (you'd be surprised how many one-horse towns survive on speeding tickets!) and contribute to the local law associations (you get a star and everything...lol) Only thing now,....update my radar detector.

Be safe, be silent, be....invisable

Perhaps low self esteem and a small pee pee caused a tension that causes anger that causes hate.http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/heks.gif

How about this one jfitziz? My wife is in her Targa in SoCal traffic jam and wants to get off at the next freeway exit. Nearing the offramp, she moves over with right side wheels over the white line. Doesn't pass anyone on the right, just moves over too far. Result? $253.00 ticket by CHP in line several cars back. (She knew he was there). The Targa was Guards Red.:mad: :mad: :mad:

I used to live in Placerville and commute to work in Folsom. This stretch of freeway is the most heavily patrolled in the state. At times I've seen as many as seven patrol cruisers lined up at an onramp waiting for a signal from a CHP aircraft. Look at the shoulder of the freeway and you'll see the markings they use to measure speed of traffic from the air. There is a CHP office (academy?) near Placerville, and a CHP training area in south Sac. This stretch of freeway is probably where they train junior officers in traffic control. The odds are heavily against speeders here.

Watch out, rant ahead...
 

It's odd. We're complaining that we're unfairly characterized as a group (because we own Porsches), and yet some of the posters in the same thread feel free to ascribe common traits and failings to another group (police officers) with impunity.

I know getting tickets is a b*tch -- I got another speeding ticket at 12:15 this afternoon, in fact -- but you guys may want to bear in mind that some of the people who regularly post here are also police officers, and probably aren't won over by your characterization of them as cowardly blowhards with a chip on their shoulders for 911 drivers.

We drive <u>extremely</u> conspicuous cars. We <u>like</u> them that way. Of course they're going to get more attention. We don't mind when that comes from other car guys and leggy 19-year-olds with daddy issues. But a lot of guys on this board get all bent out of shape when their hey-look-at-me sportscars also get noticed by law enforcement.

And then people imply that they drive in the same manner as any other cars on the road. Uh, did I hear you right? Go to the "redline" thread, and count the number of guys who say they hit their rev limiter every time they take their car out. The same probably couldn't be said of Plymouth minivan owners.

I'm not generally one to rant, but I believe that if you knowingly speed, or break the law in any way, you ought to be willing to own up to what you've done when you're caught, no matter how many other drivers you may think are getting away with it at the same time. I know this doesn't apply to everyone posting in this thread -- but I do know it applies to me. I was speeding today, and I got caught doing it. It's happened to me in every car I own at least once. The old Jaguar gets it the worst of all, for some reason.

But my point is pretty simple. And I may even go on to try and fight the ticket I got today. But I won't try to claim any moral high ground or unfair persecution while I'm doing it (at least, not on this board). I sped. I got busted. That's how it works.

And honestly, I'm thankful that the guy wasn't there to point the gun at me a block earlier, when I <u>was</u> at redline. I'd be in a jail cell right now. ;)

All right. End of rant. But here's my request. Let's try to behave like gentlemen -- even if all the cops in the world don't happen to also do the same. It's very easy to throw stones from the safety of the internet. But that kind of easy courage leads to a lot of bluster, sometimes, which can discourage other 911 owners from participating on this board.

Holy mackerel Andy...I write about human nature that applies to everyone and I get attacked. I don't get it. I was not being specific to any group or individual. And please don't label me as a Porsche mechanic. I know one 911, period..... I try to be amoral on everyone's views. Dam...I wonder if Big Mike's view point is specific to only him. And Big Mike, who else have I disturbed besides you? Have you found anything on my past threads to back up your attack?? Please prove your position, show some credibility...If your interpertation was so specific, why didn't you ask/write me to be more specific??

Ron, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was ragging on you. And this particular anti-cop thread isn't really all that bad. But there have been a number of them in the past, and it ends up making us sound like a bunch of cry-babies running to mom because the police are picking on us.

However, I think your post is referring to the slam delivered by "Big Mike." I deleted that, because it was the first post by the "user," and it was loaded with profanity -- and didn't have anything to do with 911's or even the subject of the thread. It was just an attack on RoninLB. It struck me as pure troll material, so it went.

There's a balance you've got to strike (as a moderator) between free expression and 911-technical-related content, here. I don't like deleting posts, but I also want to protect the quality of the board, so "Big Mike's" post went. I wouldn't delete Ron's, since he's expressing an opinion that pertains to the thread topic.

I agree Jack. Just because someone is driving a porsche/policecar/harley/bicycle doesnt make them a good person or bad.
I've gotten tickets for not wearing a seatbelt "properly" while a passenger in a 7 mph over vehicle, and I've had an officer help push my broken down car far off the road and give me a lift to my house. He used to have a Targa. You take the bad with the good. If you treat police with the respect they deserve, they might worry less about what you smell like when they sniff you.

We are also very conspicous and its not smart to drive that way in traffic on a daily route. The same guy will be there tommorow, and it does give the drivers of classic a bad Karma.

Better to do the side streets late at night or the crack of dawn on a weekend. Better political correctness and faster lap times.



Unless of course that Honda reeeally p*sses you off:mad:

How are you thinking of fighting the ticket Jack?

InterestedSmileWavy

Cheers
Mark

Mark...IMO, there is a game to play, a political game. The game depends on where your court system is set up. To start an education with this I would visit the Nat'l Motorists Ass. www.motorists.com and follow the leads to info. In NY metro you can get a 50/50 chance of a dismissal by only pleading not guilty and following a basic game acording to some stats. I read. When it goes further than that you have to know more about the game to maintain the favorable odds. I have never been pulled over without being asked "do you know what speed you were driving at". IMO, the question is the rope around your neck. When you say you know you were speeding but bla, bla, bla you tightened the rope yourself, you confessed. I got pulled over and was asked that question after getting hit w/instant radar. I replied that because of the truck I was following and the other cars close by that I was more concerned for safety at the moment. The cop looks 2-3 miles down the big road and turns away and laughs with his hand over his jaw. The truck and cars were no where near me. He ONLY wrote me up for 10 mph over the limit. A truck used to be the main hit on the radar if you were close to it, don't know now. The beat goes on........Ron

Jack, I agree with your comments about owning up to a ticket.
Realistically, some of us would still be in jail if we ever received 10% of the tickets we deserve. ;)
What is aggravating is some of the dumb things we do to get a ticket. Couple years ago I was driving in DC and it is raining hard. I'm 2nd in line to make a left hand turn, traffic clears and the 2 of us make our turn. There's a motorcycle cop standing at the side of the road and he flags us down. 1st car gets a ticket and pulls away and then it's my turn. Ticket is for making a left turn after 4:30 PM. Since it's only 4:40 the cop must have had his stopwatch out.
The cop fills out his ticket and asks me to sign it. I politely refuse and ask him to take me to the station house so I can pay the ticket. Off we go with me following this motorcycle in the pouring rain. Takes us about 20 minutes because of rush hour traffic. When we got inside I almost felt sorry for the cop because every step he took you could hear a squish.
I've often wondered if he still stands in the rain giving tickets for no left turn after 4:30. SmileWavy

HMMM, Sounds like I missed an interesting post by "BIG MIKE" while I was at the track legally driving the crap out of my car.

As some of you know, I'm a police officer and frankly I'm bored to death of these type of posts. I sometimes read them and then almost always exercise my option of "switching the channel " without getting involved. Some of the things I've read in the past are pretty offensive, such of lack of intelligence and/or education of the officer or simply stupid such as the officer being jealous of your 15 or 20 year old car. I'm going to continue not getting involved in these type of posts in the future, so that those of you who want to whine and cry about being picked on or harrassed for driving a Porsche or for those of you who like to belittle my chosen profession can do so undisturbed, But I just wanted to say "Thanks" to Jack for his post.

I've had as many good experiences as bad. Cops are people and have good and bad days as well. No one can tell me that they are always consistent, fair, impartial on their jobs...

However I have ALWAYS been treated professionally by the police which is more than I can say for many professions. (Doctors, lawyers, customer service, etc...)

You break the law, you get caught, that's life... I've GOTTEN AWAY with stuff because of the Porsche as many times and i've GOTTEN BUSTED...

Karma, balance, whatever... It boils down to attention... If I didn't want some attention, I'd drive a Camry...

I have never had a ticket in my Porsches yet (knock on wood) but after I bought my new Yukon XL I got tagged twice in the first couple weeks of ownership...sheesh..go figure.

I must say, I've been let off the hook completely twice, once by CHP and once by Florida sheriff's deputies, while driving a P-car. Both times I probably could'of been carted off to jail.... but they were goood guys and let me off. The Fla one... I was doing over 100 on state 4-lane H-ways (US 27) stoplights and all at 3 AM. When "THEY" ran me down they had clocked me at 75 in a 40 and paced me at 96 in a 55---this was after I had slowed down. Oh yea, I was driving on a suspended License at the time, only had a piece of paper from the judge saying I could drive while on leave!

And that was probably my luck I was in the Navy at the time.

So, cops are good guys too, don't forget some went down with the firemen in the 9/11 stuff.

Just rember, every car they walk up to day or night could be the last steps they take! A good friend of mine in high school had a little brother who was murdered buy a guy in a stolen car, the little brother was an FHP rookie.

Give em a break...
D.

72 911E

If you guys think you get a lot of attention driving ripping around in a P-Car, try a Ducati. Ask FreeFly or Doug Z about it.
I've had several policeman pull U-turns just to follow me and see if I do something illegal. I've been followed home more times than I can count. The Porsche may as well be Volks Rabbit when compared to my bike, or any bike for that matter.
Kyle.

Lol...my last ticket was in my 91 Explorer...2 months ago! If I had been as careful in it as I am in the Porsche, well today I'd be $100 richer. However, did get him to lower it by 10 mph, for which I'm eternally grateful (was unintentional, lost track of speed on a back road coming back from CO. Can you believe an Explorer can do 85? Wow!)

Agree with wisely choosing the locations to "open her up", goes along with clearing the highway first. Once again, support your local police...

Public servants are people just like you and me!
 

Just in case you thought I was mad at law enforcement types, please be advised that I was merely attempting to learn the experiencing of other Porsche driver operating Porsche motor vehicles generally, and specifically in Northern California.

My inquiry was not about demeaning traffic cops or no accountability for one's mistakes or intentional conduct while operating a sports car or any kind of auto.

Years ago, before the wide spread use of the Internet, as we all know, we could not compare notes with other drivers about our experiences with autos, roadways, traffic, you name it.

One of the biggest problem facing traffic law enforcement today, besides drunk drivers, are chat rooms and message boards like this one.

WHY?? Because if enough people communicate with each other about their law enforcement experiences then patterns of abuse become known and some law enforcement agencies do not want you to know about the way they operate in some parts of the country.

What is more important? The freedom of communicating with each other or the freedom to drive a fast car?? I say the freedom to communicate is more important than operating a high speed motor vehicle on public streets and highways.

We can always drive the hell out of our Porsches at the track.

Think law enforcement will ever outlaw the Internet or require licensing and registration before you can go online???

It has already started friends!

JFITZOZ
:eek:

hmmmm,

Driving like a fool + Porsche + observant cop doing his job = ticket

Driving like a fool + 5.0, vette, Ducati + observant cop doing his job= ticket.

Tickets suck. I just got one for not coming to a complete stop at a red light, making a right turn. Motorcycle cop was on me before I could get up to 20mph. Did the car make a difference? Probably did not help the situation. But is was the end of the month and I technically was in the wrong.

Tickets are a way of life. Having a car that attracts attention (not necessarily a Porsche) probably do slightly increase your odds of getting one. Sucks, but it is what it is.

Hmmm,

I commute and drive Hwy 50 from Folsom into Sacramento daily and sometimes off rush-hour. I hardly see CHP here. Of course the traffic pretty much keeps you around the speed limit. Usually, traffic (non rush hour) goes ~80mph. There is no reason to go beyond this speed here. Hence, I have not been followed, or pulled over for speeding. I think the CHP is after excessive speed and crazy, zig-zag, in and out of traffic type drivers. I have noticed "Angel" (CHP Helicopter) above more and more lately.

I do not have the front license plate on the car, it's in the trunk. Someone asked, and it is required to have the front license plate on the car here in CA.

I save my speed for the turns at the auto-cross.

I go the speed limit around town, as I think I will see 1) my neighbors 2) local police 3) other peoples kids 4) my nieces nephews.

Every once in a while I get a neighbor outside my block, who comes up and says they have seen me driving my car around and say/ask how good it looks, what year etc, new paint. I like the fact they don't come up to me and tell me to SLOW DOWN in their neighborhood.

Everytime I think about speeding or when the g/f gives me a bad time about NOT speeding because "nobody drives the speed limit, your in Porsch-" I think about how incredibly depressed I will feel if I was to ever HIT someone or worse KILL somebody on the street or freeway.

Just my .02

Well, let me tell you my story.

About three weeks ago I got pulled over for running a red light making a left hand turn. Was at the intersection with about 4 vehicles in front of me turning onto JCB here in Atlanta at 7:30 AM.

When the light turned green the traffic started moving and at about the time I entered the intersection, it stopped. There I was in the intersection when the light turned red, and low and behold a police officer was sitting there.

Traffic started moving and the officer made a u turn to bust me. He came to the vehicle (pick up truck) and I gave him my drivers license. No exchange of conversation. When he returned about 5 min later he handed me a ticket. I signed it and asked him how long he had been patroling that intersection. He stated for about a week.

Well I was Pi**ed. Drove off and returned to the scene of the crime about 10 minutes later and he had another vehicle pulled over.

The officer knew that that intersection was ripe for violators because of the congestion and he took advantage of it. I checked the time on the green signal at the intersection I was in and the light at different times of the day the light would stay green from 10 sec to 20 sec. Not consistent.

He then marked the location on the ticket as 2 mi south of Lilburn when I was in fact in Norcross about 4 miles from lilburn due S/W.

I am going to fight it - mainly because the code states it has had to have been done with disregard or disobedience, neither of which I did.

Just a comment.

Steve

I live in Sacramento and commute HWY 50 to West Sacramento every work day. I work for Cal Fed Bank and the corporate headquarters are on what we call "the Campus". On the campus are 5 buildings one of which is an office building for the CHP. Just a block away is the CHP training site. Do I tiptoe? You betcha! Have to share one amusing episode on a homeward bound commute on "50". Watched a CHP motorcycle person pull over a Lawn & gardening truck complete with trailer full of mowers etc. Got the truck pulled over and (Just got the new BMW bikes)....as the officer steps off the bike....must've been so eager to write ticket he for got to put kickstand down...dumped bike right between his legs. Ummm ya think whoever was driving that lawn care vehicle got a ticket?

Okay...I know I'm going to get flamed here but here goes anyway.
(And I know there's been posts about this before so sorry if it a repeat but..........)

I don't get it that if you admit guilt (over the internet, like this BB) and you know you were in the wrong (eg speeding) how can you fight it. Its the law! If you want to fight a matter of opinion/situation (eg you got caught in a situation by circumstance like stormcrow) then cool...do what you can.

BUT if you were speeding, I can't see that in most cases you should be challenging what you know was wrong (eg Jacks quoted saying "I may even go on to try and fight the ticket I got today" and further "I sped. I got busted. That's how it works.") Sorry but what is the moral stance in fighting something you know you did wrong?

I am sure that I must not understand some other principles in this context. What are they?

Jack - I do not mean to attack you at all. I have respected your moral character, your sensibility and of course your knowledge with 911's for near on two years now, but this one I don't get.

I admit to speeding too. I must say I have had my fair share of tickets and close to losing my licence also. In all cases though I know I was at fault. Today, somewhat older and maybe wiser, I think too much of the terrible damage done to families from misuse of cars. I feel nausious (sp) at the thought that my little guy (5 years) or girl (9 years) could be killed by my or other drivers impulsive desire to speed. I could not live with the fact that I killed someone as a result of me speeding.

I have been a lifeguard for many years and have saved many lives through CPR. I have also lost a few who could not be revived. Each one that died remains a vivid picture in my mind (almost a sense of guilt!) but I COULD NOT imagine the terror of causing death by speeding. Sorry but there aren't any excuses, and paying a monetry value for a few seconds/minutes of impulsive desire is nothing to the realization that I could kill someone.

Police have little to do with this. Fighting the ticket for speeding must be like a kick in the pants to them. They uphold the law, for others to break it or beat it!!!???

Even if you have a tale to tell of the bad apple in the bunch, I would think that in the 'big picture' we should be wary of citing situations where we either expose them without recourse, or that we fight when we know we are guilt.

I'm sorry for the rant but I just don't get it.

Cheers
Mark

I have been driving for about 40 yrs now...many different vehicles and many countries.
The law is the law....you step on the wrong side of it....you get a ticket..or....maybe you get lucky. If you count the number of times you get away with it, verses the number of times you are caught, I bet the odds are in your favour.
That said....I have been ticketed at times and beaten the ticket in court. Remember...always check the info on the papaer for acuracy!!
I once got a ticket for 148mph on the highway (limit 65) in my Fiberfab Avenger...got to court...no officer there...presented my ownership to the judge...it said my car was a 1964 Volkswagon....judge laughed at the speed written on the ticket...dismissed!
I also ride a Harley chopper, always have, and I get stopped on a regular basis for "safety checks" it's part of the game.
Now I live in Vancouver...I never run red lights...I come to a full halt at EVERY stop sign...my paranoia is at the extreme level..and my eyes are watching all the vehicles around me. Vancouver is full of ethnic ppl...some of them are asian...theey have no.(read ZERO) periferal vision...not their fault..just the way they are constructed....sooo...I NEVER let them get at me....even if I have the right of way...their SUV is bigger the my bike or P-car....they can do what they want!!
Bottom line...from military defensive driving course....rules are OK...laws are OK...but common sense and safety are the only things thet will keep you alive...or keep you from getting tickets!
Bob

Mr Hawg Rider - Asian people DO have peripherial vision...perhaps recent Asian immigrants are not skilled drivers like the rest of Vancouver, perhaps it was not an auto culture where they came from, or some other cultural issue - OR NOT - but certainly "Asian people" have as much peripherial vision as any Pelican reading 911 driving poster. Other than that - you're right on.

Wow! Asians really have no peripheral vision because of the way they are constructed? That is amazing. Can't wait to see the followup on THAT statement.

expath....Mark, being literal is OK in a poker game. Being literal when dealing with society sounds like brain damage diagnosis in a cognitive therapy treatment center, with all due respect. When you said "I don't get it", maybe you are refering to reckless behavior, which I can understand. Although out laws are written to "preserve and protect", the literal interpertation of them has allowed many in our society [in US] to manipulate the Constitution of the US in the courts since WW 2. I feel the PD is in a constant difficult position to "preserve and protect"...

As a potential P-car purchaser I didn't want my first post to be on a thread like this but I just have to respond. HawgRyder, your comments about asians and periferal vision is like saying the reason asian bikes are better built than american ones is because white people are not good at math and engineering, it's just the way they're made. If I thought that way I wouldn't want a Porsche.

That said, I feel that it is everyone's right to challenge a ticket if they choose to do so. This is part of the checks and balances that take place in our legal system. I'd rather someone get off a ticket when he was really speeding than be pulled over for doing nothing and not be able to fight it. I haven't had a bad run in with the law but I'd still have no problem challenging a ticket in court. It's my legal right and despite what anyone says regarding whether or not it's moral it's none of their business.

What some of you are saying is that

"I'm in the wrong, I know it, I was speeding. I got caught. Now.... how can I get out of this because I don't want to pay money for something like this?"

Some of you feel that it is your inalienable right to get out of your own responsibilities by finding loopholes and technicalities.

Now I accept, as previously said that if there is a legal avenue that proves your innocence then go for it. But if the fact is you were speeding AND YOU KNOW IT, accept the fact and pay your fine. Please understand that I m not arguing with the situation where they scanned your car instead of the one next to you, or they recorded you doing 100 in a 60 zone when you were only doing 70! Again great...fight it. But this is a whole lot different from the average ticket write-up where you know you were in the wrong and there were no extenuating circumstances.

RoninLB

What you are saying about people in the US..... 'manipulate the Constitution of the US....' is sort of what I'm, talking about. I agree that fighting unjust laws are a right and an expectation. I also agree that not all of this can be taken literally. However, some things we should just lay over, admit our guilt and cop the punishment IMHO. A child at school punches another child because they wouldn't share their lunch. Whether the child should have been more socially responsible and shared their food or not, the point is that the attacker must accept that he was acting socially inappropriately and now pays the penalty. Hopefully the attacker learns some responsibility from the circumstances and the punishment.

How many people can honestly say that if they have nearly lost their licence that they didn't modify their driving behaviour. Now If they didn't get caught they would continue to drive around with less regard than if the fear of punishment was neigh.

cdconner76

'It's my legal right and despite what anyone says regarding whether or not it's moral it's none of their business.'

You you come here and tell me the driver of a car who lost control and hit my 19 year old mate (making him quadraplegic for life) while we were walking along the footpath about to go for a surf, has nothing to do with my business. Yeah right - do whatever, but the fact that my mate got his life ripped away from him and the driver got off in court because of a technicality - yeah its my F.......... business. Too many people today challenge things when they know they are in the wrong. And this is different from people who fight because they are innocent or not guilty to the extend of the punishment. Please don't start to tell me that your right to fight is part of keeping the system working. In few cases does this work to be true.

HawgRyder
Please retract your statement and apologise for your statements. I live in Asia and your statements are highly racist. Granted Asian driving is different but its nothing to do with 'construction'.

Thanks all
Cheers
Mark

I've never received a ticket I didn't deserve.

However, in Houston, I was let go because the officer said it was too close to Christmas.

I do have some pet peves that I feel are not addressed as vigorously as speeding:

1) Turning right on red without stopping
2) Changing lanes or turning without signaling
3) Tractor trailer rigs speeding with 4 times the needed stopping distance as cars
4) Uncovered gravel trucks
5) Unlicensed drivers getting off with a slap on the wrist
6) Uninsured drivers getting off with even less
7) Distracted drivers
8) Tailgaters
9) Left lane locos
10) Cars using the emergency crossover on the freeway to change directions

Now, I feel better.

Certainly the pros and cons of "fighting" a ticket have been discoursed here with talk of what's moral and checks and balances of the system. But, not one of you has said anything about the downstream effect of a citation. It would be fine to pay the piper for your indescretion appropriate to the offense if that was all there was to it. When you default to guilty by paying the ticket, you become a singular statistic as well as a sector statistic for use and abuse by the insurance industry. The immediate manifestation is an increase in your insurance for a disproportionate period of time. The latent manifestation is that we are profiled and abused as a group. For all your morals, your insurance company will not reciprocate.

'For all your morals, your insurance company will not reciprocate'

Why should they - you just proved by speeding that you are a risk - there ain't no free ride!

Mark

I drive for a living. My driver is a 95 Toyota. I usually run 10 to 20 miles over the limit most of the time. In 7 years and over 400000 miles not one ticket.. Knock on wood! I find when I am speeding to pay attention to my surrundings. If I see a cop slow down!! They usually stick out some how.If you are not paying attention and you blast by a cop who was visable you get busted. And when I am blowing out the carbon in my 911S. you dont do it if there are places for cops to hide.. Not to mention places for kids to jump out in front of you.. If you see a mailbox and a driveway no speeding! if you see a intersection no speeding! If yu see blind corners with places for cops to hide, you get the picture. If you see open road with no driveways interesections. Go for it.. I am surprized by how much slower I do drive my car now that I am driving on the track..

expathk, I see your point and after thinking about it I think I mostly agree with you. I've been very fortunate enough to never have had a speeding violation and also never to have someone close to me suffer in such an accident. That said, I also think that our legal system in regards to traffic violations needs some work along with better supervision of police activities. It is too easy for someone to get out of speeding tickets and it is also too easy for police officers to abuse their authority. I know that the vast majority of policemen are good people but a good friend of mine is a Dallas County Sheriff and I hear his stories of how he's harrassed people before and I'm surprised at what he can get away with. He once stopped a guy for "looking" suspicious in a neighborhood that he didn't fit into. When he figured out that there was no cause to stop him the guy he proceeded to knock out one of his taillights. Now that they have cameras installed in most of the cars it's a little more difficult for him to do those things. I may still challenge a ticket in court but I'll weigh my guilt in the matter and the circumstances at the time.

Cool......and now to stop being devils advocate, I speed too often and even though I know I'm in the wrong and usually I'm shaking like a nun after a climax, I still love the full throttle experience. Thing is when I get caught, I take what's coming.......oh well.....no-one perfect, lest me!

Cheers
Mark

No retractions or appologies from me....and I'm not particularly racist either...just an observer over many years and many contacts with different ppl.
I yield on the peripheral bit if you say so...however, in my experience, and two full volunteer tours in Asia in '66 and '67, I have to wonder if the statement is true.
My biggest beef about the whole system here is the purchasing of licences rather than the earning of them. Last time this hit the fan was in Toronto area, about a decade back I think, when several hundred or more were found to have cheated on the licence exam.
They had an "interpreter" between the examiner and the testee.....examiner says "what do you do at a red hexagonal sign".....interpreter says same thing in his language to the testee....testee says "I don't know" back to the interpreter....and the interpreter says "stop" to the examiner.
When they re-tested all the suspect drivers...and BTW...funny thing...dozens of them had the same picture....most of theem failed....even though they had been driving for a couple of years!
I love to drive...love to drive quickly...and take pride in my ability to be aware of my surroundings at all times. I have no sympathy for drivers who are "surprised" by situations that any competant one would normally be aware. I see some circle the parking lot for what seems like hours with a glazed look on their faces trying to find a space to park...and pass up hundreds...because they don't plan the trip properly...and know in advance which store they want. (very comical) But at least they are off the highway when that happens....no ..wiait....they're not....one of them just cut through 5 lanes of traffic just now....almost passed the off-ramp!
As I get older...I notice that I have much less tollerance for idiots....not excusing myself....just the way it is.
Bob