Can a normal knucklehead DIY'er swap out spring plate bushings in an afternoon?

[Hotwatermusic]

I have a day off tomorrow and have been needing to do something with my spring plate bushings for a while. Some one here said that you can actually just *swap* the plates from one side to the other, and it's just like getting new bushings. Some part of me thinks there must be a reason why NOT to do that or I would have heard about it being done a lot more often.
So my question is two fold: Is the spring plate side swap a viable option? And say I already have some Elephant racing OEM rubber bushings, how hard is it for an average DIY guy to actually swap out the bushings?
My main concerns are: Is there a particular order to taking the spring plate bolts off? Are there any bolts I specifically SHOULDN'T touch? I know I'll need a very thin flanged socket to fit over the 4 cover bolts, right?
I have the 101 projects book, but there isn't a real how-to for this project, the closest one is for lowering the car. And even the most detailed description I've read on how to do it leaves much to be desired.
So ANY tips or info or links to either one of those would greatly appreciated--I don't want to waste a perfectly good day off tomorrow by not working on my car!

[Joe Bob]

On a scale of 1-10, it's a 7.5......indexing them can be a trial. I would replace the bushings.

[ruby911]

I did everything you are needing to do short of removing the bushings from teh spring plates (had the spring plates out of the car and in my hand, bushing still attached.) Did both sides, including runs around the block and re-adjusting of ride height 4 times. I had a fellow Pelican lending a hand - started about 9:30 and ended about 2:30. It was not hard, just time consuming the first time you do it.

[ruby911]

oh yeah, I am pretty much a knucklehead as well.

[Trackrash]

Speaking from experience this can be a frustrating and time consuming job. Do you have a way to measure the angle of the torsion arms accurately? Do you have a floor jack and an impact wrench? How will you restore the alignment settings?
What I would recommend, which is what I did a number of years ago on my 911 with great success, is just replace the outer rubber with a plastic bushing.
You only have to take off the retainer. You won't have to disassemble the torsion arm from the control arm or take off the shock. Most importantly you won't have to re-set the alignment. Setting the rear alignment can take quite a bit of work by itself.
My car rode smoother with the plastic bushing. I think it was because the old rubber bushing allowed metal to metal contact between the torsion arm and the retainer. Just be sure to use the graphite impregnated bushings, not the red SAW ones.
I think switching sides would only be a short term solution.

[jimbauman]

Originally Posted by Trackrash

... Just be sure to use the graphite impregnated bushings, not the red SAW ones.

What's wrong with the red polyurethane bushings?

JB

[brads911sc]

Is this a Daily Driver? if so, I wouldnt.

Can you do it in an afternoon? Maybe. I believe that if your not going to do it right... your better off not doing it... Take your time. Change the bushings, the bars (if they have been rubbing), and get a proper alignment and CB. this is one area where you shouldnt cut corners...

I did mine, front and rear. didnt take me longer than a weekend...

[enjefriy]

it took me a solid whole day to replace all the bushings with the Black elephant racing types.
Removing the original rubber bushes was tough but doable.
The advantage of being a knucklehead like myself is we are persistent.

Mark any surface you can for the closest reinstallation. Then after, a visit to the alignment shop, it is still a must to recheck camber, caster etc.

I wanted to lower the car abit more, and what i did was to go one serration up from the original position. Work out fine and car was still level.

Corner weights maybe affected too. Unfortunately, my part of the world don't have shops equipped to check this out for us.

Also, i installed a grease nipple into the end cap of the Torsion Spring. Even the Black ones started to squeak after a while. So this allowed me to pump Moly without any uninstallation.

[Hotwatermusic]

Getting the plate angle/ride height right after re-installation is the biggest thing I am worried about. I've read that marking everything exactly where it is before taking it apart helps with re-installing it. But I know that's not going to be enough.

Also, is replacing the trailing arm bushings a smart idea while the plates are off, or is one job not related enough to the other to warrant the consideration?

[runfaster]

Start early in the morning and don't stop until you finish. You will be tired.

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by ruby911

I did everything you are needing to do short of removing the bushings from teh spring plates (had the spring plates out of the car and in my hand, bushing still attached.) Did both sides, including runs around the block and re-adjusting of ride height 4 times. I had a fellow Pelican lending a hand - started about 9:30 and ended about 2:30. It was not hard, just time consuming the first time you do it.

I'm the Pelican who helped Ruby911 reindex his spring plates. (Hey Ferrell, you forgot to mention that we swapped sides with the spring plates) Anyway, when you get the spring plates off, look carefully at the bushings and you will see that when you "flip" them, you will have a whole new "bearing surface" for the bushing. The wear, also known as "cold flow" of the rubber bushing, distorts the bushing and allows the spring plate to ride up towards the top edge of the spring plate retainer. When you swap them you restore the spring plate to retainer clearence. Basically all the stress is on the top side of the bushing. One other plus is you retain the "factory bonded" bushings, something you can't achieve with replacement rubber and the bonded bushing works in harmony with the torsion bar to achieve the spring rate.
The absolute best solution is to replace the spring plates with new factory ones with bonded bushings, but thats an expensive alternative. By the way, obviously you can only do the "swap" once!
You could ask, but I think Ruby911 is quite pleased with his swapped spring plates.

[Hotwatermusic]

Originally Posted by uwanna

I'm the Pelican who helped Ruby911 reindex his spring plates. (Hey Ferrell, you forgot to mention that we swapped sides with the spring plates) Anyway, when you get the spring plates off, look carefully at the bushings and you will see that when you "flip" them, you will have a whole new "bearing surface" for the bushing. The wear, also known as "cold flow" of the rubber bushing, distorts the bushing and allows the spring plate to ride up towards the top edge of the spring plate retainer. When you swap them you restore the spring plate to retainer clearence. Basically all the stress is on the top side of the bushing. One other plus is you retain the "factory bonded" bushings, something you can't achieve with replacement rubber and the bonded bushing works in harmony with the torsion bar to achieve the spring rate.
The absolute best solution is to replace the spring plates with new factory ones with bonded bushings, but thats an expensive alternative. By the way, obviously you can only do the "swap" once!
You could ask, but I think Ruby911 is quite pleased with his swapped spring plates.

So the plate swap procedure is identical to actually changing out the bushings, except for--changing out the bushings, right? Still have to re-index, still have to get alignment and ride height reset? And what if the original bushings are 36 years old? They still will have life left in them on that bottom side that hasn't taken the load all this time? Doesn't the rubber age and get brittle as a whole? I would love to do the plate swap, but not if I am just going to be addressing the issue again in a year or 2. Is there anyone on the board who did a plate swap years ago and can report how it's held up over time?

[mcaterino]

Given that you already have the bushings, I can't imagine any reason not to change them. Even if the opposite side of the old rubber has some bulk, it certainly won't have the spring that a new set would. Changing them is really the least difficult part of this whole procedure. A torch and a sharp carpet cutter and the old bushings will be off in 15 minutes. The new ones fit on easily. They get super-glued on, and should probably be left a day to set before reinstalling, but that's the only thing that would prevent this being a relatively quick job. (Quick, I mean, in relative terms; you can still expect some fun getting everything off the car, and then there's indexing and alignment...)

Mike

[Hotwatermusic]

Originally Posted by mcaterino

Given that you already have the bushings, I can't imagine any reason not to change them. Even if the opposite side of the old rubber has some bulk, it certainly won't have the spring that a new set would. Changing them is really the least difficult part of this whole procedure. A torch and a sharp carpet cutter and the old bushings will be off in 15 minutes. The new ones fit on easily. They get super-glued on, and should probably be left a day to set before reinstalling, but that's the only thing that would prevent this being a relatively quick job. (Quick, I mean, in relative terms; you can still expect some fun getting everything off the car, and then there's indexing and alignment...)

Mike

Super-glued on? Dang I am glad I posted this question tonight. I had no idea they were suppose to get super-glued on. Are the Elephant Racing bushings suppose to come with any literature or anything? I didn't receive anything with mine. So, just normal super-glue? Or is there a proven brand or type that everyone uses? It wouldn't be a Porsche project without a "best glue for spring plate bushings" discussion, would it?

[oregonmon]

Did I hear JB Weld in one post?

[enjefriy]

neither did i. I never glued them on. Yikes.
They were dang tight though. I remember i had to chamfer the edges to get a lead for installation.
Literally had to bang the suckers in

[ruby911]

Yes, we swapped the springplates on Ruby, and all seems well. If I had planned a little better in advance, I probabaly would have installed new bushings, but I was standing there in the garage with the rear suspension scattered all over the floor when that tought crossed my mind. The car feels nice and tight as is.

[mike635]

>So, just normal super-glue? Or is there a proven brand or type that everyone uses?

I replaced mine this spring with the Elephant racing rubber parts and used a Loctite product called "Black Max" which is an industrial cyanoacrolyte adhesive (super glue). It's basically a super glue mixed with rubber to improve the shear strength which I think is what you need. We use it where I work and I looked up the properties and it looked like the right stuff. Only had the car about for about a month but so far so good. The car isn't really any tighter but the road noise is much improved.

I emailed Chuck at Elephant about this adhesive thinking he might have some input or interest but never heard back. Probably gets a lot of stupid questions..

Mike

[uwanna]

If you're going to all the trouble of doing new bushings et al, you ought to install adjustable spring plates! Given you have a "74, unless a previous owner installed adjustables, you still have the old non adj plates.
Indexing the plates and getting the ride height correct without adj plates is a nightmare! You'll find used ones on the for sale forum all the time at reasonable prices or perhaps put a WTB request on the forum. Believe me, they will make your "bushing job" tolerable.

[mcaterino]

Super-glued on? Dang I am glad I posted this question tonight. I had no idea they were suppose to get super-glued on. Are the Elephant Racing bushings suppose to come with any literature or anything? I didn't receive anything with mine. So, just normal super-glue? Or is there a proven brand or type that everyone uses? It wouldn't be a Porsche project without a "best glue for spring plate bushings" discussion, would it?

The Black Max that the other Mike mentions sounds ideal. When I got my Elephant bushings I called Chuck and he did say that any super glue would be fine, so I just used whatever I had handy. He recommended a light but even coat over the entire bushing contact surface on the spring plate (radius and median plate). The bushings were a snug fit, but pushed on fairly easily by hand.

While I think Elephant makes excellent products, the documentation does leave something to be desired. Something this unintuitive should certainly be specified with the product.

Mike