An entire summer's work--ending in failure
 

Over the summer I had an issue where my car stopped being able to go into gear. 1st, 2nd, reverse--all grinded when I even attempted to shift. It got to the point where I would have to turn the car off at stop lights, put it into gear, then turn it back on so I could drive away. Long story short, all this culminated into me dropping the engine, replacing a whole bunch of parts that didn't need to be replaced, including the clutch plate, pressure plate, TOB, clutch fork, clutch cable, pedal cluster, starter, fuel injectors, so on and so on.<p>Now we come to tonight. I put the wheels of the car back on the ground for the first time in 5 months, start it up, and try to put it into gear.<p>Same. Exact. Thing. Happens.<p>It seems like the clutch cable is just 3-4 inches too long. I have it adjusted at this point to its furthest point of travel to tighten it and it still doesn't pull far enough to disengage the clutch. <p>Now, for your viewing pleasure, please enjoy this video of all my work for naught:

911 grinding gears after new clutch install - YouTube

So, all this being said, is there any hope for me to change gears in this car again?

clutch disc stuck to the flywheel? does it roll with the clutch pedal down? did you get a '75 cable instead of a '74? is the clutch cable tube in the tunnel loose? do you have the release fork engaged into the t/o bearing?

The fork is definitely engaged to the TOB. I spent a good hour making sure that happened when I was mating the engine back to the trans. Little bit of grease in the TOB channel and all. AFA the clutch cable, I bought the only one sold here at Pelican that would work-- the hooked end one. None of my clutch arm setup is original '74, so the hooked end cable is all I know to fit. But it just seems too long, as I can't get the full 25mm of travel that Bentley says the clutch cable needs. I'll check and see if the car rolls the clutch pedal pushed in.

Where is the Pedal Stop at on the floor board?
Please post a pic.

Didi you carefully examine the fork, I had one crack and it would flex and do pretty much what you are describing.

Walk away take a break - this may require an engine/trans drop but it will be fixable with out too much hassle! You will taste victory , man over machine! :-)

I've been there before, working on my car and it is frustrating! I'm not sure I can do more than offer moral support. My '74's original 915 had the single lever arm. It was super simple to set up. The late SC 915 on it now uses the omega spring set up, which is a bit more complicated, but still not terribly difficult. I'm not familiar w/the clutch cable w/the "hooked end". Is it possible to reposition the lever on the splined shaft one spline back to take up some of the slack?

could be a clevis pin at the pedal.......
how much movement are you getting with the cable?
does your 911 have the horseshoe spring at the clutch lever? or was that only the later cars?

it is easy to get the omega spring in wrong, it's gotta be loaded the right way.....

Porsche 911 pedal cluster - YouTube

So here's a little virtual tour of my pedal cluster, showing the pedal stop as well. Someone mentioned the clutch release fork having a crack--I replaced that as well (the old one was actually fine) so I know it's not cracked and bending.

Could the problem be inside the trans? Did you open it up an have a look inside while you had it out ? You mention that you could kill the engine then get it into gear, could you then run the engine and let the clutch out as normal?

Yeah, before all this I could kill the car, put it in gear, start it up and drive away. I actually tried that again this time, but when I start it back up it jumps and stalls--with the clutch pedal depressed. That leads me to think the clutch isn't disengaging.

You will get this right...if it was man made it can be fixed...hang in there others here can help

Thanks for posting that. OK, that is way too much play.

You need a pedal stop or you will get the opposite effect. But we will take care of that later.

Please ask a helper to do the same thing in the video as you record what is happening underneath.

I know you did this, when you measured the gap at the clutch arm to the helper arm with the cable off, right? Do it again but this time see if there is any slack on the clutch arm. A buddy's 77 had a bit of slack giving us crazy readings. I turned the arm a bit forward and it solved the issue for him and we got the proper 1.0MM gap and 25MM throw after adjusting the pedal stop. He does not grind anymore.

Think of it this way with the 1.0MM gap, there will be about 10MM play at the pedal at rest and moving forward before the fork catches the T/O bearing.

Once it is properly adjusted, you should feel the clutch engage/release at midway point of the pedal throw.

Jim

I'll post a video tomorrow of underneath car while the clutch pedal is wiggled. I'm a little burned out on it right...it's so damn frustrating.

Oh my Brother! I know what you mean. Don't let it beat you. Get some rest and be fresh to tackle it tomorrow. It will be worth it, I promise.

Can you post pictures or a vid of your actual pedal cluster, under the floor board? Was your cluster ever rebuilt?

take the whole floorboard off to give the pedal more travel. I agree with others who think the cable is the wrong length or something like that.

Yeah, I got the pedal cluster from somebody here on Pelican. It was rebuilt with brass bushings and actually had a grease fitting installed. It's in very good shape, and replaced my original after the clutch pedal helper spring had finally snapped in two.

The reason I was asking for pictures or footage of the cluster is to give some experts on this board the opportunity to confirm that all is installed properly on that end before you crawl under the car to check the other end of the cable. Just a thought...

Sounds like you have the wrong cable, but also, how much is the cable screwed in at the pedal? A couple turns makes a huge difference in travel.
I saw your other post about this, post a pic at the omega spring and the people with this type of setup should help.

If you kept the old cable, try taking it to the local Porsche dealer to see if they can get a matching cable. Now that the new cable is installed it would be a pain to try and compare it to the old cable that used to work.
+1 on staying patient to prevail. Best wishes.

the loop end cable is for a trans that uses the omega spring, the long and short release arms with the adjusting bolt between them, and the aluminum bracket that holds the end of the cable sheath with the two adjusting nuts. is the end of your cable sheath attached to this bracket? a '74 trans would not have this setup and the loop cable would not work. post a picture of that area.

I see you have a few posts on the same topic. Mounting point, cable ends, and length due to the mixing of parts from different years seems to be the problem. Like JW wrote, post a picture.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/645452-all-clutch-cables-same.html

His 915 trans is not OEM to his baby, it is a upped with the Omega Spring and Helper Arm.

I didn't see this mentioned in here so I will. Did you see that the arm on the pedal cluster that the clevis attaches to is not spinning on the pedal shaft? Can you see it moving with the pedal as you push it in? Otherwise I agree with John you should post a pic of the trans end of the cable.

you can update the omega spring, both arms and the longer vertical shaft up through the bellhousing, but you still need the bolt on brackets that the sheath attaches to, and adjusts on, as well as the bracket that the omega spring pivots on and has the steel stop on it for the long arm. as far as i've read, you still have a '74 trans, right?

E SULLY posted this pic on your other thread. does your setup look exactly like this.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1324240729.jpg

On a 915, regardless of year, the large helper spring and 77 to 86 bowden shield, cable and attachment to the trans are all the same. The pad eye to connect the cable to the idler arm is pictured.
The cable has to be turned in about 20 turns on the clevis in the front.
The bowden cable has to be tapped to seat on the fire wall.
The retainer for the 15mm adjusting nuts has only one location on the side studs as does the spring pin.
Bruce

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1324241147.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1324241161.jpg

My set up looks exactly like that except for the spring that goes to small arm. My clutch set up was definitely updated from the original 74 parts. When I get home I will post a picture.

I have original magnesium 74 trans, but all the clutch the mechanicals are updated to an omega spring, double arm, hooked end clutch cable set up.

Here's what my clutch set-up looks like right now:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1324272970.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1324273029.jpg

I have everything listed in the pictures you guys were posting except the spring that runs from the small clutch release arm to the transmission body. Clutch is brand new.<p>Here's a picture of the old clutch cable, which worked absolutely fine for well over 2 years, and to my eyes looks the same as the new one I put on. As soon as I can tomorrow I am going to remove the new cable and install the old one and see if it makes a difference.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1324273609.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1324273637.jpg

looks normal enough. the pedal cluster is rebuilt and the roll-pin on the clutch pedal is good. did you check the tube in the tunnel to see if it was loose from it's mounting tabs? moving the sheath forward by way of the two nuts raises the pedal.

Your pedal cluster video shows way too much slack. Your pedal engages much too low.
Have you tried to reduce it at the pedal cluster clevis as well the mounting nuts on the transmission? I see you have a few threads left at the transmission mount to take up slack, probably could tighten up at the pedal cluster clevis also. I was able to get it on my 1973 with it close to the end of adjustment.

Is your change lever on the right spline? look at the difference in your photo and the other. See the bolt on the clutch release levers? If you have too much slack Id look to adjust it out here.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1324304582.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1324304617.jpg

Was this issue ever solved?

Well, here was the problem. All clutch cables are NOT the same. Both of these are hook-end Gemo cables. So even amoung the same brand, style, and type evidently there's differences. The clutch cable on bottom in the picture is the new one, and you can see the slightest bend in the clevis threads where it was bumping up against the eyehole on the pedal cluster shaft. It was actually much worse, I had to straighten it out just to unscrew it from the clevis! The top cable is the old one, which I re-installed--and the car shifts perfectly now. When I look back on all this, I feel like I circled the globe to just go down the street. I think the entire issue from the beginning of summer could have been fixed between the large helper arm, clutch cable and pedal cluster. But then what would I have done with my entire summer?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1325178886.jpg

Don't you just love those easy fixes? ;)
Don't feel to bad, I put the ring gear on wrong, cock-eyed, put the tranny/engine back in, adjusted the cable which felt a little weird and pop goes the TO bearing off of the PP. Had to do it all over again.

Clearly you have never owned an Audi with electrical problems. lol.

Sorry you bought and replaced all those expensive parts, only to discover it was a bad cable. Glad you got it sorted out, a victory is a still a victory. :beer:

I like reading disaster stories, makes me feel better about my own garage adventures :rolleyes: ;) :D

Great, so now we cant buy the gemo cables that everyone sells?