Electrical Gurus Please? Flag mirror issues

[cwinters01]

Hi Jim, thank you very much! Man the brown wire comment still has me a bit confused. There are two browns coming off the toggle (my wiring way up above neglected a "X2") Are you saying to solder another into one of those?

[jmod]

sorry about that. My toggle has one brown on pin 2 and one brown on pin 4. The two pins are connected internally (inside the toggle). I connected to the one on pin 2.

If one of these pins is vacant, just check the continuity and connect to it. Otherwise just connect to the existing brown a little lower down. 3 sounds like too many for one pin.

[cwinters01]

OK, thank you very much Jim! I'll give it a go as soon as I get the new relay!
Thank you again my friend,
Christian

[cwinters01]

Jim,

Buddy, you absolutely nailed it!!!! I got the relay this week and just did a test fit, and it works absolutely perfect!!!

Man, I can't thank you enough for all your help. When will you be in San Diego? The beer is on me, my friend!

Thank you so much again,
Christian

[jmod]

Hi Christian,

Excellent news, glad I could help. If I get a chance to get there in the near future ill take you up on that beer.

[cwinters01]

Hi Jim (or anyone else that might know), time to pick your brain again... After getting everything back together a couple of weeks ago, I discovered an issue that I didn't notice as I was testing.
When I move a 'selected' mirror, the other mirror moves just slightly too, but definitely in a much weaker way. Happens when either mirror is selected.

I pulled all of the wiring back out of the door to make sure that something hadn't happened to it when putting the door back together...everything is as I left it.
I tested the relay with another, and that wasn't the problem...or I should say the same issue occurred. I tested the selector switch with a new one that I purchased and that didn't fix the problem. Finally, I tested the toggle switch with a new one that I purchased and the problem still occurred.

One thing I noticed, and I have no idea if this means anything at all, but when I pulled the wire associated with the passenger side mirror from the selector switch while at the same time having the selector 'on' for the driver side mirror, I still get movement in the passenger side mirror when I move the joystick. But when I pull the wire associated with the driver side mirror from the selector while at the same time having the selector switch 'on' for the passenger side, I get no movement in either mirror.

The way I have wired (which I think is exactly how you have diagrammed?):

Relay Connections:
White from joystick to relay
Blue from joystick to relay
Brown from joystick connected to brown from mirrors and hooked to relay
Blacks from mirrors connected and hooked to relay
White/brown from mirrors connected then hooked to relay

Selector Connections:
Green from Toggle goes to Selector
Black/brown from driver mirror hooked to white from driver mirror connects to black/yellow that goes to selector
Black/brown from passenger mirror hooked to white from passenger mirror connects to blue that goes to selector

Obviously I have something hooked up wrong…is there anything glaring to you from what I have written?

Thank you very much for your help as always.
Christian

[jmod]

Hi,

I suggest you disconnect the mirrors and do some continuity checks to understand how the black and blue wires are connected. The blue wire at the drivers side mirror for some reason becomes black when it emerges at the passenger side. The left/right connection to the passenger side is blue when it should be black. As these colors are key to the left/right change I suspect the PO has done some internal loom changes. If the blue at the left/right is connected to the blue at the drivers side that would complicate things even more.

[cwinters01]

OK, thanks much Jim. I'll give it a go.

[jmod]

Hi, I had a look at my car and I think you are onto something. Mirrors are adjusted so rarely that I missed the slight movement. In your case I think either the loom has a problem or the changeover switch has a wiring issue. It should be doing the same thing on both sides. The motors moving slightly is a circuit problem. Ill have a look tonight and figure out how to fix it. Its nothing major just need to tweek it a little.

[jmod]

Hi Christian,

Looking at this further, although I thought I had come up with an elegant one relay solution, it has the drawback that the other motors run slowly. The two relay option is needed to get an OEM type function. I've modified the circuit to add them in at each mirror. Apologies for causing you unnecessary work.

[cwinters01]

Hey Jim,
This awesome! Glad I bought 3 relays at once! No apologies ever necessary; I owe you the hugest debt of gratitude for all of your patience and help with this. I am a complete eletrical dunce, so without your help the car would have undoubtedly burned down by now.
Thank you again Jim and I'll add the new relay this weekend and report out.
Thanks again!
Christian

[jmod]

Hi Christian,

Finally got a sunny day in Sydney so I could have a good look at my loom. After looking at it and comparing it to your description i now think that your loom is correct. I do think that I misunderstood your description. In my wiring diagram I showed the blue and black connected together on the left of the diagram. This connection was an attempt to represent what I thought you were describing. You should not connect these wires together, but rely on the loom. If you have connected them put them back the way they were. I will post a simplified drawing later tonight.

[jmod]

Ok Christian,

Two new schematics. The first one is a repeat of my earlier one with the blue/black connection removed (to avoid confusion). The second is focusing on just the mirrors. On the left is the stock wiring and configuration for the older flag mirrors. On the right is the same wiring modified with a relay to drive the later 944 style dual motor mirrors. I have amended the diagrams with the wire colors and put everything in english (rather than the original SW for black etc).

Hope I haven't lost you in all this!

[cwinters01]

Hi Jim,
I got everything together and now it all works perfectly (without a doubt). Thank you again for your time and help; having one less electrical thing not working on the car is a big relief.
I did one thing slightly different than the schematic..out of necessity. And it is probably just because I wasn't seeing it in the schematic right. The black that you have coming into the schematic on the left side, through process of elimination I determined was the common that runs to the passenger. I had to actually hook that up to the blue coming off the toggle on the left hand side, then hooked the two up to the relay. After doing that, everything was perfect.
Thank you again for everything Jim and watch out for me on my next electrical adventure!
Christian

[jmod]

Hi Christian,

Good find. The black and blue should be connected together. I was trying to avoid inadvertently making you connect them twice so I removed the connection from the last version of the circuit. I was assuming the loom was ok - not always a good assumption with cars that have been messed about.

I too spent much time getting them working and have only adjusted them once in the last two years...but its good to know they work!

[Swazzy]

Hi Gents, I'm replying to this older link because I have the same issues. I'm completing a restoration on a 79 SC, I have the older joystick and toggle switch, and now have the newer mirror motors. I understand the idea of adding the relay (which is super hard to find these days so if anyone has a link please lmk). But not exactly sure if I understand the diagrams correctly. I know its asking to dig back in, but could someone update the schematics here to label the joystick, the toggle switch, the leads to the mirrors, and the relay please?
Much appreciated,
Marc