Clutch stuck?

[quattrorunner]

I think I know the answer but give me your oppinion?
Just finished my engine swap from 77 911 to 77 930 engine mated to the 915 from the 77 And i used the Sachs power clutch. When u mated the engine and trans in the bench I noticed the fork wasn't in the right position so I pulled apart and put it right. I havent thought about it till tonight when I went to adjust the clutch, it wasn't right and I couldn't change gears when running. Under the car I couldn't budge the short arm, and the long arm wouldn't move it either. More accurately, the shaft isn't turning. What have I done? In sure the engines coming out again right?
Thanks.

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by quattrorunner

... Under the car I couldn't budge the short arm, and the long arm wouldn't move it either. More accurately, the shaft isn't turning...

How were you trying to move it, by hand?

Without the clutch cable attached, is there a (very little) play for the fork to hit it the sides (back and forth) of the clutch release bearing?

[quattrorunner]

Yes, the cable not attached but the arms there to pry with a strong bar. No move. So when the cable is attached it will stretch if I push too hard.

[LuftWaffle]

Before assuming it's something that will require separating the engine and transaxle, look closely at the linkage. It's possible to get the two levers installed in such a way that one of them (long one?) is on the back side of the plate attached to the bottom of the trans. When you try to actuate the clutch it does exactly as you describe. Don't ask me how I learned this... Wish I had a picture to describe what I'm trying to say. Perhaps you can watch the linkage while someone else works the clutch pedal. Good luck! -John

[JJ 911SC]

With nothing attach to the Bellcrank (2), can you get that little back and forth play of the fork hitting the groove sides of the Clutch Release Bearing.

If yes, as per LuftWaffle suggestion.

Bottom illustration is for the Turbo model:

[al lkosmal]

If you are not getting the little bit of play, basically the play between the fork tips and the throwout bearing flange/lips as you use the arm to rotate the shaft...............you may have inadvertently installed the fork incorrectly and now it is not engaging the throwout bearing...and may be wedged to one side or the other. That would be engine drop and do over time. Ask me how I know.

Al

[quattrorunner]

I had it like that before I put it in the car and seperated and was pretty sure I got it right when I put it back together as thats the reason for it to get seperated, but I guess it's possable I still got it wrong? How hard is it to get it right?

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by quattrorunner

... How hard is it to get it right?

If you are talking about the fork not engaging properly the bearing, I'm not sure it can be done in-situ. But I would make sure that it is the problem before dropping the engine out.

If you have (borrow or rent one) an inspection camera you can take a look via the inspection hole at the top or trough the stater hole. Got mine for $100 and it pay for itself a few time in the last 6 months.

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[quattrorunner]

Hey yeah I have one, didn't even think about using that.

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by quattrorunner

Hey yeah I have one, didn't even think about using that.

Good, that should tell you one way or the other. You should easily be able to enter via the top hole (2 O'clock position on the CAT illustration).

Now thinking about it (but could be wrong), you should be able to separate the transmission from the engine in-situ once the you undo the CVs and the the transmission mount leaving the mounting bar in place. Sliding it out on the engine stud. You would not need much to move the bellcrank until it engage "inside" the bearing channel.

Before you go that way, should it be the problem, let me know and I'll put the car on the lift and see if it is feasible.

[quattrorunner]

I looked at the fork throughout configuration with the digital display (took pictures). The fork is in there the way I thought it should be. Someone have pictures of correct orientation? Maybe I'm too much of a rookie. Wish I would have looked at it when I took it apart.

[Flat6pac]

If you closed the trans up to the engine without engaging the fork properly you have probably damaged the fork beyond use.
Doing this opens the fork to 80mm over the stock new of 75mm, virtually undetectable without measuring the opening of the fork.
Replacement is the only option.
Bruce

[JJ 911SC]

Here is some pics. The fork hole/pin (#3) has to be a the top. If you have to go back in, as per Flat6pac, I would change the fork.

If the set up is correct, I would follow LuftWaffle approach.


Facing the engine side:




Your view from the inspection hole:



Proper engagement;

[quattrorunner]

Thanks so much! So I looked and saw what I feel is correct orientation of the fork.



With another look at the clearance that may not be an issue. These pictures are from my iphone of a digital camera probe tool like above so the images are not great but best I could do. I'm wondering if the lightweight flywheel mat be an issue?Doubtful but if the flywheel has too tight a tolerance on the outside edge what is it holding too tight? The pressure plate? That should be no problem, I'm just trying to guess where I need to just remove the whole assembly. Before I do, I'll try to rearrange the arms in different configurations as suggested above, thanks.

What the heck is the yellow color? Don't remember that when I put it in. There is no reason for the disk and pressure plate to be stuck together yet, Brand new parts and never run more than 15 minutes or so, not even really run in.

[JJ 911SC]

I think the yellow has something to the with the LEDs at the end of the probe. I got that a few time inside cavities.

Definitely take another look at the mechanical set up from the bellcrank to the clutch cable.

[j911brick]

did you use a 930 clutch and flywheel or a 911?

[quattrorunner]

It's the 915/61

[j911brick]

Originally Posted by quattrorunner

It's the 915/61

Isn't that the transmission? what about the clutch and flywheel?

The reason I ask is that from the pictures it doesn't look like the fork has much if any room to pull the T/O bearing. But I admit I have never seen the assembly from that view. If you had a 930 clutch or flywheel it probably would not work since both those parts are thicker than on a 911 and would bring the T/O bearing too close to the fork. OTOH, I doubt a stock 911 clutch will be strong enough to hold the 300+hp of the turbo. Just a theory...

[quattrorunner]

o-sorry, I misunderstood. The clutch is a sachs power clutch with aluminum pressure plate. The flywheel is a 225mm 911 flywheel 6 bolt, same as the origional. It fits exactly the way the one I took out did, in fact as it turns out, the one I took out is the same clutch and pressureplate system I put in new and it's still very good condition if anyone needs a good used high performance one.
Hopefully it will hold the 300+hp, but I'd rather it slip than the trans get schucked.

[j911brick]

Did the flywheel come with the motor?