Reducing the cost of a Restoration?

[SeaDweller]

As the time nears to drop my car off at the body shop, I'm getting an ulcer over the $5K it will cost to do the job. Add to that all the seals and other miscelaneous stuff I'll have to provide, and I'll probably be looking at over $6K before all is said and done. In the end, I'll have a $22K investment in this car, which will probably be worth $15K if I'm lucky........I could buy a pretty nice Honda Civic for $6K!!

I've been thinking of ways to reduce the cost of this project (aside from just not doing it), such as taking it apart and stripping it myself, but I must be lacking the confidence to make a decision on it. I've read that it's a nightmare trying to take these things apart, let alone stripping them. I'm also worried about not being able to get the panels remounted properly. I can just imagine dropping that newly painted fender on the driveway!!

If you've been in this position before, I'd really, really appreciate some advice!!! If I could even pare a couple thousand off this project, I might sleep at night........

[makaio]

Sea,

If you don't want to part with the money don't. I for one am not going to think you are a worse person because of it. There's no shame in driving an older Porsche that needs a paint job.

Yes you could buy a nice used Honda Civic for $6000, but would you want one? Probably not. I'm in the same boat as you. I paid $8,000 for my Renn Wagon. I have about another $4,000 into it so far for extra wheels, Auto Power roll bar, carrera tensioners, a rear spoiler, GHL muffler, and a whole lot of other little things. I'm planning to spend another $5,000 on a good paint job like you, and probably another $2000 on the interior.

Yeah I'll have $20,000 in a 25 year old car. But I can't think of another car I would want for $20,000. Nothing else is going to come close. Don't think of it as an investment. CARS ARE NOT INVESTMENTS! Unless you buy something, and put it in a isolation chamber and never drive it, and what fun would that be.

[Superman]

The reason a good paint job costs so much is because of the many hours it takes to perform the work. Mostly "prep" work. Prep work is not rocket science. I do not consider the removal of fenders to be difficult. Doors can be a little more difficult if they have electric mirrors, windows, etc, but they're still not rocket science. My 9 year old daugher could strip paint, except that I won't let her near a can of paint stripper. I've heard brake fluid makes a nice, cheap paint stripper if you're willing to wait for it to eat the paint.

A friend of mine did a frame-off restoration of a '53 Ford pickup and he sent the parts to the painter one panel at a time. The paint on that vehicle is breathtaking, even from a distance of hundreds of feet. I'd do most of the work myself if I were in your situation. Perhaps ALL the work. The new HVLP sprayers are not as tricky as paint sprayers used to be.

[Sean Hamilton]

Expensive *****es both - my German Porsche and my German Shepard.
Sooner the pain of parting with the readies than parting with them!

[epbrown]

They say a cynic knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

When I got the estimate for painting the RR (as high as $9000 "barring incidentals" from some places), I was told by the place I picked that I could shave about 80% of the cost off my disassembling and stripping the paint myself. Every knowledgeable calculation I came up with said it would take about 200 man-hours to do the job, maybe longer since it'd be my first time. It would also take me approximately 4 months, minimum, assuming I put all of my free time into the project. Then there are the space requirements, the tools, the mess. And of course, there's the chance that I'd screw something up an need to re-do it, or abandon the project and pay more to fix the mess I made or take a loss on the car selling it to someone.

All in all, it's not worth it. If the money bothers you, simply keep saving until it doesn't impact you as much (which is why I've spent a year with a Rolls-Royce that flakes paint every time you close the door or hit a pothole ). I actually considered taking a part time job with a temp agency to pay it off, which would let me make the money for the project without getting as messy and take about half the time to make.

As far as investment goes, that stuff only matters if you're selling. Enjoy the car for a few years and you'll have gotten your money's worth, and it will still be worth the $15k or so it is now, probably.

Emanuel

[jenmcd]

I would do as much of the prep as you can. If you have the space to store the parts you can save a ton of money. Depending on the quality of the paint job, 50% of more of the labor can be saved by DIY.
Some tips:
1 - Don't use the pretty orange paint stripper they sell at hardware stores. Buy Aircraft Remover paint stripper available at automotive paint stores. Nasty stuff but the fastest working stripper I found. Place plastic on the ground (buy this by the roll at Lowes) to catch the paint drippings. Body filler will not dissolve as well. If its thick, use a DA sander.

2 - Once a panel is striped to bare metal, treat it with Metal Prep. This prevents rust and etches the surface for paint.

3 - Sandblast small parts, Big time saver! If you don't own one find a local shop and take all the parts in at once. We use a local guy that will sandblast a Bentley frame for $ 150.00 including pickup and delivery.

4 - You can take individual parts in to have them painted but it may cost more (labor for mixing paint, cleaning the paint gun) I would not recommend this for metallic paints, especially silver, because it has a slightly different color tone to it every time you mix it.

5 - If you have time and no money, you can color sand. 800, 1200, 2000 then a 4 stage buff.

6 - Take pictures!!! Lots of them throughout the process. This will help with re-assembley. Kind of cool to look through when the car ir all done!!

I have rambled enough. Good luck. Post or PM if you need help.


Keith

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Michael, after I finished restoring and modifying my '83 SC, I tell people that I spent $60,000 (which is true, including the $10,000 cost of the ratty original car) building a brand-new $20,000 car. Some get it, some think that's crazy. That's all it will ever be worth, since nobody really cares that I got another 100 hp out of the engine, etc.etc., but I consider the two years of fun I had a bargain at $30K per.

Not that this is what you have any intention of doing, but I just want you to know there are people worse off than you are...

Mailed you the a/c bracket Priority at 10:30 this (Wednesday) morning.

stephan

[FranksPlace2]

Michael,

Sunk costs don't matter. Given you are going to spend $6k, would you rather have a dull (but reliable) Honda or a spiffier Porsche.

Emotionally there is no question. It's the logic approach that leads to confusion.

Frank

[SeaDweller]

Thanks Stephan!! Check's on the way!!

As for the other advise, I do appreciate it...I guess one way to look at this is that once finished, the car won't depreciate in value, so it should be worth "X" for quite a while. At least I don't have any payments to make on this thing!!!

[SeaDweller]

By the way, if there's any body guys reading this, if you'll do the car for $3K, I'll put a magnetic sign on the side with the name of your shop!!!

[andymin]

I did a lot of the stripping work on my car to keep the costs down. Even took a week off work the burn all the factory underseal off from the underside of the car. Hard work though and I wouldn't do it again.

you can some pics here

regards

Andrew

77 Carrera 3.0

[cary]

I'm doing everything, but the painting and putting the front and rear glass back in.
I should be in the $1200-$1300 range. $500 for the PPG paint. $150 for painting. $75 for installing the glass. And $400 for my box from Pelican ( rubber and new front trim ). $100 for supplies.

I'm not stripping ( too many cones/curves have my name on them ). I'm doing little to no body work. I'VE NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE. Not a clue.
Taking out a few door dings. Taking off the deco rocker covers.
( RS look ). Taking out the errors from the last paint job. Dust spots and fish eyes. Removing every piece of rubber and trim.

But after spending the weekend with Leland. We're all ANAL enough to do this. Or we wouldn't be here on the board.

I'm lucky living in a small town. Because the local body shop owner is walking me thru it. The problem you'll run into DIY. Is the paint system warranty. I believe both Dupont and PPG warranty the paint job if you use their entire system.
So I bought everything he told me too. PPG is what he uses.
You almost have to be a chemist ............

It's kind of fun. Some spots I've done over 3-4 times ( glad I'm not paying myself ). I brought him out to the house to check my work. He told me I'm too picky. The paint and clear will take care of some of the things I was stewing over.
But, if your the patient type and have the space and time. I'd go for it.

It's 3:30 PM. Can't wait to get home and start sanding.

[85eurocarrera]

Sea,

I started my restoration project in November 01. It is April now and I am just getting around to painting. I work on it after work and on some weekends.

My car is, or should I say wasnt in bad shape. Lots of rock chips on hood, door dings and scratches through clear and paint. Now it looks worse than it ever has, in the stage it is now. Kind of scary.

I removed all glass, pannels, doors ect... but did not strip to bare metal. (only leading edge of hood, front bumper where there was heavy rock chips) I was told by professional painter that my paint or should I say base (factory primer) was in better shape than I could ever get back, so I have wet sanded entire car to factory primer.

This has taken a lot of hours to get to this point, but I find this work to be enjoyable and somewhat relaxing. Of course it has been winter here so it hasnt been that bad. Now with spring here and the sight of Porsches on the streets...I am getting anxios to finish.

To make a long story longer.. it is actualy taking twice as much time and money as I had estimated but worth the knowledge and pride that I did it myself.

I enjoy this type of work, I am a professional model maker, and have experience with the Dupont materials I am using. But if you are having second thoughts about doing stuff yourself...maybe re think it and pay someone. From my seat, it is a lot of time and work.

Just my opinion, good luck

[dean]

I painted my car myself. I stripped to bare metal. I wouldn't strip a car unless needed. I had to rebush the hinges and do some rust work. It took me 350 hrs.

I am going to try to post a pic

Dean