Por15 vs others to remove RUST
 

Hey Guys,

I have a question;

What your opinion on Por15 and other rust delete??

Thank you.
-Y.

POR15 - (I know it good) - Starter pack you'll get a 4 oz. can of POR-15 (enough to cover 12 square feet) :

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1327875050.jpg

LocTite - Rust-Oleum Automotive rust removal package from local HD, about the same price as POR15 starter pack:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1327875151.jpg

por15 works great on bare metal, not so good on painted. my experience has been a good cleaning (wire brush, etc), good cleaning (water then dried), then por15. it seems to hold up good for 5-10 years but may need a recoat at some point in that span of time.

never used the rustoleum stuff for any car. i just don't know that i trust something sold at wal-mart to keep the ugly demon at bay for my ride.

I've used POR15 for years with great results. Painted over rusty pin holed floor pans in an old car and they looked great for years. I put a very light fiberglass matting down and painted under/over it with the POR15 and it 'welded' it to the pans....you could stand on them with no problems.
I've heard good things about other products but have not used them....do not get the stuff on your hands btw, sticks.

PO15 does not delete rust. it just "encapsulates" it. it bonds to rough surfaces and not so much to smooth surfaces, where it will probably peel off. hazes over in a short time, especially in the sun. rust mort changes rust to a black inert substance, but you have to get the majority of the rust off first. it won't kill a thick layer of it.

No real experience with either. just want to add what i have read on the paint and bodywork forum.

por-15 is not meant for painting over, but it is widely used.

there is another product called SEM rust shield, it should be better if you need to paint over it.

What John says...

Some good discussion here: Pelican Parts Technical BBS - Powered by vBulletin

and here: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/paint-bodywork-discussion-forum/641895-rust-question.html

My thoughts on POR-15

I use rust dissolver from eastwood, then encasulate it. I have a tub it to dip parts. Works great.

The second photo is an interesting combination of items. The first two on the left (naval jelly and rust reformer) do similar things but I am not sure you should use both.

Naval jelly, rust mort and others that contain phosphoric acid (active ingredient) are the stuff John Walker talks about to convert the rust into a black inert material.

Rust reformer (and other similar aerosols) are a spray on thing that you spray and let harden. It partially converts and encapsulates the rust. The jury is out on it's effectiveness vs the Naval Jelly (phosphoric acid containing) products.

The primer is for sanding and prior to it's application, but you should apply an etching primer first to the bare metal.

If you got the time and space, why not molasses?

Stovebolt Tech Tip! A Molasses Bath

Rust removal...........the miracle of molasses!

lots more info out there, this is just two.

I came across this while surfing another automotive forum... Ultra One I haven't tried it though. It sounds almost too good to be true.

use ospho first. it is an acid that will eat the rust. use a wire brush after it dries, then something PO15 or extend that will put a hard coating over it.

i started teating my boat trailer springs like this. (salt water). before i was replacing springs about every other year. after, they lasted many years. (i sold the boat).

I think molasses will work great, when you can drop rusty part into the bucket...

I am talking about rusty floor and inside of the car... :)

-Y.

Sorry if I am hijacking this thread, but it is very timely for a situation I'm dealing with right now. I thought I understood when/why to use POR15 but after reading this thread I'm not so sure.

I am in the middle of rejuvenating the interior on my '83 coupe. I pulled the windshield out because it was cloudy in the corners. That means moisture and where there is moisture, there is the potential for rust, which is exactly what I found. It looked pretty bad, so I ground it down to see if it was just surface rust. Thankfully it was just surface.

I had planned on covering the bare metal with POR15, but now I'm wondering if priming it is really the way to go. What say you experts?

sub

tirwin, I would use the POR15. If you're going to cover the metal with something, it may as well be POR15. It hardens sort of like powder coat. It cures from absorbing moisture from the air. When I removed the undercoating from my car, there were spots where it was loose and could collect moisture. So I undercoated the whole pan bottom with POR15. It was roughed up from the removal of the undercoating and I put on a fairly thin coat of POR15, so I'm optimistic it won't separate from the metal anywhere.

Thanks for confirming the POR15, Marv. Last thing you want to hear is "what you SHOULD'VE done is..." :D

Remember to rough up the areas where the metal is smooth and where you want to put the POR15. As said in the directions, POR15 likes some "tooth." You can also sand it a bit after it cures & paint over it.

I used POR 15 on my gas tank and oil tank 4 years ago. I followed it up with their etching primer and then a top coat. It looks good so far. I would make sure to use their Marine Clean, and then Prep and Ready. Using another manufacturers products might affect how well it bonds. I purchased it in the small 6 pack cans. Once open, it doesn't have much shelf life. Any moisture, humidity and it hardens quickly. And wear gloves and a good respirator, fumes are toxic.

x1000 on gloves. it stayed on my hands for a good 3-4 weeks.

Hey guys,
Here what I've find so far, I've asked fellow Pelican Andy (Chemist by trade)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/645100-new-pelican-new-911-owner-9.html#post6615657

and this fellow Pelican John, many thanks http://forums.pelicanparts.com/paint-bodywork-discussion-forum/641895-rust-question.html#post6394800


Also, those links:

Picklex does not need any washes - Picklex20.

Stop Rust - KBS Coatings - 3 Step System - AquaKlean - RustBlast - RustSeal

Chemicals & Coatings - Autobodystore

Zero Rust Paint - Aerosols

picklex 20 - good or bad - Vintage Mustang Forums

picklex under epoxy

My 2c.
-Y.

My experience is with Naval Jelly. I have a car that when I bought it ten years ago had a lot of heavy surface rust on the chassis (not a Porsche). No perforation but some fairly deep corrosion. I was living in a fairly remote location so my optiions were limited. I thoroughly degreased the chassis, removed any remaining paint (there was veryy little, and applied a very heavy coat of Naval Jelly. This comes in a jelly form as the name suggests and sticks to surfaces very well.
The instructions on the container said to rinse off after ten minutes-that seemed FAR too little time so I left it on for 24 hours and then pressure washed it off. The result was better than I could have hoped for: The chassis looked like it had come out of a dip tank. There was a whitish deposit left where the rust had been. There was NO evidence of rust remaining. I dried the chassis and sprayed on a good quality primer followed by two coats of Imron. Nearly ten years later the chassis still looks terrific and in the odd spots where I have knocked off paint with a jack, for instance, the whitish finish is still visible but no rust has ever reappeard. I think the 24 hour "pickling" period did the trick.

Gimme three steps...

I have used POR15 for years with great results on farm equipment and cars.

Three steps here: POR15, Inc. - Stop Rust Permanently - Repair Gas & Fuel Tanks

Only then do I paint over it.

Nothing comes close to this -

For great rust removal Safest Rust Remover

I have used this. I have recommended it. It works as advertised. The people I have recommended it to have raved about it.

I will NEVER use any other chemical rust treatment.

What you put over de-rusted metal is your choice. Eastwood's rust encapsulator works - it is coro-less repackaged under a different name, but it does not remove rust. Ospho and naval jelly convert rust, but do not remove it. Por-15 is tough, but does not remove anything. Safest rust remover and sandblasting remove rust. Where I cannot sandblast, I use chemicals. After I sandblast and want to be SURE, I still use the chemicals.

Por15 works great when applied correctly (following the steps above). The most important, usually unknown fact, is that there is no UV-inhibitor, and as such it must be top coated if it is going to see the sun.

Por-15 has a topcoat called tycoat. Its for uv protection. Look up a product called rust bullet. I used it on a plow truck i own and was quite impressed.

They have plenty of top coats, black coat and chassis coat are great as they come in spray cans now.

Never used any of the products mentioned.
Been using phosphoric acid to remove rust and convert what can't be removed with a die grinder and wire wheels for the last thirty years.
It has been the standard of that industry longer than most people here have been alive

Ospho is one brand I know of, and it's usally available by the gallon or quart bottle at Home Depot and other hardware stores.
Ospho Rust Treatment - Since 1947

Some old school guys even use coca cola if nothing else is around because it has a small amount of phosoric acid in to give it a little zing in the flavor along with the carbonation bubbles.
Thats why coke or pepsi is bad for the enamel layer on your teeth, it disolves and removes some every time you take a sip.

JFairman - what do you use on top of the reduced (former rust) layer?

Use Ospho, it is an acid that eats rust. Then, use primer and paint of your choice.