Motor Meister?

[B.Lane]

As of late i have been hearing from a lot of people that Motor Meister is more or less a bad place to send a motor. Nobody, however has given me any specifics. I currently have my motor with them and have gone the "master rebiuld kit" route. I did all the dissasembly and will be doing all the reassembly myself. So far my experience with them has been very positive. Am i missing something? If you have had a good or bad experience with them let me know! All the clammer about motor meister has me a little nervous. Thanx....

[eion]

No first-hand experience myself (and I can say with some confidence that I never will have). I assume you've done a search?

btw, you might not want to do a search if your engine is currently with them (in the same way as I wouldn't want to read the ingredients of a haggis while eating it ).

[JDaniel]

What's worth less... a 911 in dire need of a motor rebuild... or a 911 that has just recieved a Motor-Meister "Master" rebuild ??

Seriously, I would do some searching on this site and rennlist. Just so you are prepared to ask MM the right questions.

[Bobboloo]

Here's a thread to get you started:My Motormeister Story (Two Parts - Long)

That your doing your own assembly is a good thing. It's the short cuts in assembly where most of the damage is done. You also have the advantage of inspection before assembly so all is not lost.

As a part supplier it's hard for them to go terribly wrong.

There are a few who have been happy with their results but the emphasis is on "few". Roy used to login here and try to defend himself but those days are gone. He doesn't show up anymore.

Bobby

[speeder]

I think that as long as you are assembling it yourself, you should be OK. There doesn't seem to be any problem w/ the parts they sell, (from the ads I've seen, anyways), more w/ their, ahem, *craftsmanship*. "JBweld spoken here" seems to be their moto.

Are they doing machine work? Once again, you might be OK. At least one person on this BBS claims that they built him a race motor that has held up pretty well. Just a lot of horror stories about that place around here. Good luck.

[speeder]

Bobby beat me to it, (by a second or two), , what he said.

[john70t]

Caveat Emptor(let the buyer beware). It's your call on the matter.

Word of mouth tends to weed out the repeat offenders, and when your talking multiple thousands of dollars of precision machinery, a company with a record of half-ashed work and more importantly a pattern of deceit is pretty offensive.

Are you giving a free plug or fishing?

Another option you have is to buy the bearings and seals and do the work yourself. No checking clearances or alignment, no machining. It will get you down the road for a while.
As I always tell myself "why pay good money to have some idiot screw it all up when I can do it for free"

[eion]

If it was just one or two stories, I'd be prepared to believe that it was just that old thing of satisfied customers not saying anything but unhappy customers coming online and ranting, but the quantity and quality of horror stories I've heard leads me to believe a different story. That's my conclusion, obviously draw your own.

One question, though, forgive me if it's a stupid one (probably is) - if you are doing all disassembly and reassembly and getting the whole rebuild kit from them (which is presumably a fixed set of items), how come they have the engine? Are they inspecting the case, seeing if there's anything else that needs to be replaced, or...?
Just curious.

edit: just read John's post, which clears things up a bit. Might read the engine rebuild bit in 101 Projects before going to bed...

[caliber60]

I have read the post about MM. I think only the guys with actual experience should post their thoughts with MM. If you just read about it, please be neutual abou MM. I am not associated with MM. It's just scary how bad news gets amplified so large and quickly.

[JTO]

Hello Everyone,

I have personal experience with MM. I had my 2.7, tranny, and CV joints rebuilt by them this summer. I now have about 1300 miles on the motor. I have about 200 miles on the tranny. I had to send the tranny/clutch/motor back after being on the road for about a month because of severe clutch trouble (barely driveable) and whinning in all gears. The motor was sent back because I saw some oil near the rear seal and thought the seal was leaking on the clutch, causing the clutch problem (turns out there was no leak).

In general, the motor seems really fine. I have few miles really, but as far as power and running, its pretty good, with a few issues along the way like poor cold-start up, some bucking a low speeds, and a plugged fuel injector (which they helped me rectify).

When I received the motor/tranny, they did not attach the starter ring or return my starter. I had to call and ask for it. It arrived quickly. Continued ...

[911boost]

B. Lane,

Where in Colorado are you? I know of a guy here in Fort Collins that runs a shop I have heard nothing but very good things about. I have only used him for some minor work, but he did walk me through the process and was verty pleasant and helpful. If you want I can give you his name and number.

Bill

[JTO]

I asked if there were any tricks to getting the engine/tranny bolted together. The answer was no, they just go together. Well, they don't. You have to ensure the throwout fork goes into the groove in the throwout bearing. Mine didn't first time together, so after installing the power train in the car, the clutch didn't work. In the process of stepping on the clutch trying to figure out what was up, I damaged the TO fork and cable. I should have called them to say the clutch was funky, but was resting on the words that there were no tricks to bolt things together. I got the fork properly positioned and drove the car. The clutch was grabby and very hard to modulate. The tranny whined in all gears. I consulted this board for advise. I was in constant contact with Roy. Continued...

[JTO]

MM asked that I make some adjustments to the clutch and drive the car. After a few hundred miles, things were the same; grabby clutch, noisy tranny, poor low speed running, so they covered the cost of shipping the powertrain back. It was gone two months. They say they found nothing with the tranny after inspecting it and all the bearings. New bearings were put in. They said engine was dialed in just right. No issues were found.

I got the powertrain back. This time they bolted the tranny together and sent it as a piece. They said they didn't want any screw ups again because it has cost them a lot of money to go through the tranny, etc. again (implying I screwed something up in the tranny maybe). COntinued....

[JTO]

Everything went in easily and the car started and ran well. The tranny noise is diminished and only occurs in third (light whine) and louder in fifth. The clutch still shudders. I am currently workign with MM on these two issues. The engine? Seems powerful and is getting more so as it breaks in.

FYI: I spent over $11K on the powertrain rebuild.

I am kinda on the fence as far as my experience goes.

Questions?

Troy

[emcon5]

More info here.

Paul Weir

Kurt's post with the specs of his rebuild is enlightening, as is Wayne's post about the machine work costs for a 2.7 rebuild.

Tom

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by JTO
Everything went in easily and the car started and ran well. The tranny noise is diminished and only occurs in third (light whine) and louder in fifth. The clutch still shudders. I am currently workign with MM on these two issues. The engine? Seems powerful and is getting more so as it breaks in.

FYI: I spent over $11K on the powertrain rebuild.

I am kinda on the fence as far as my experience goes.

Questions?

Troy

How much did MM lead you to believe the rebuild was going to cost? They are pretty famous (infamous) for quoting a low figure and then raising it once they have your engine.

I have had dealings with MM for parts.

Months of waiting for parts they had "on the shelf" when I called.

3.0 gasket kit sent instead of 3.2.

A "Perfect, ready to go" 3.2 crank that was totally out of spec. (To their credit, they did replace the bad crank with a perfect one.)

Rods that were shipped loose in peanuts so they dinged each other up. One rod was missing a rod bolt so the rod cap was swinging around like an open padlock. They did this twice to me!

MM's cam setting directions are correct now - thanks to me bringing it to Lee's attention. Lee was surprised when I told him the factory manuals specify measuring the intake valve lift - not the exhaust valve.

I did learn a valuable lesson from my dealings with MM - Trust no one, measure everything yourself.

-Chris

[FLAT6FAN]

No personal experience with MM, but everything I have heard indicates that you should run the other way quickly. Best of Luck.

[john walker's workshop]

TRSTNO1
too bad it's taken in washington.

[Joe Bob]

Went to the BAR website....the old info on MM is gone....BUT....the PP database still has my post from last year.....


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hey it gets better.....here is a copy of the MM public record....woo hoo....

Name: MOTOR MEISTER INC
Type: Automobile Repair Dealer
Number: AL197177
Status: Valid Definition
Expiration Date: November 30, 2002
Licensed Year: 1997
Address: 12262 WOODRUFF AVE
City: DOWNEY
State: CA
Zip: 902410000
County: LOS ANGELES
Actions: Yes



Business Owners
MARKS JERRY L-SECTY
MARKS LOLA HENRIETTA-PRES



Related Licenses/Registrations/Permits
No Records returned

Disciplinary Actions and Complaints with Notice of Violation
Administrative Disciplinary Actions

No Records returned

Complaint History Report
Date: April 30, 1999
Repair Type: ENGINE OVERHAUL/REPLACEMENT
Confirmed Violation(s):
Code Book: Section: Description:
B&P 9884.8 Improper invoice
CCR 3356. Fail to show business name on invoice
CCR 3356. Fail to show dealers address on invoice
B&P 9884.9(a) Failure to provide a customer with a written estimate for parts and labor for a specific job.
CCR 3353. Fail to obtain authorization before repairs
B&P 9884.9(a) Fail to note additional oral authorization on invoice and work order
CCR 3353.(a) Fail to properly record additional authorization
Date: January 26, 2000
Repair Type: ENGINE OVERHAUL/REPLACEMENT
Confirmed Violation(s):
Code Book: Section: Description:
B&P 9884.9(a) Fail to note additional oral authorization on invoice and work order
CCR 3353.(a) Fail to record additional consent to exceed estimate
B&P 9884.7(a)(1) False and misleading statements
CCR 3373. False or misleading records

Looks like only two valid complaints, probably a few in the works....but those that have a problem need to call.

YMMV

Now on the BBB....my personal opinion is that they don't do much. AFIK, the BBB is like paid protection, they protect their members, meter out a little discipline and only really bad mouth businesses that do not belong to the "protection racket"....

But what do I know....

[JTO]

Chris,

My initial conversations with MM had the cost for what I wanted to do around $6500, for the motor. During the rebuild, it was found that my cam gears, cams, valves, sprockets, WUR, oil thermostat, and a few injectors were bad. This drove the cost up about $1500-$2000. I added a Carerra oil pump, oil bypass mods, on top of this. For the complete rebuild (which included SSIs, new clutch (Sachs with kevlar disk), port and polish the heads & intake runners, flycut heads to raise CR to 9:1, time cert case and APR cylinder studs and rod hardware, and rebuilt CV joints, and rebuilt transmission) my total bill includig shipping was $11,600.

What do you think?