You don't have a fire extinguisher?

[Chuck Moreland]

The POC held a great short track series event this past weekend at Streets of Willow.

Unfortunately the good times where interupted by a 914 that combusted.



This car caught fire while running the track. The driver realized he had a problem and pulled off. Unfortunately he chose to stop well away from the worker stations, everyone had to run a healthy distance to help him.

The car was equipped with a fire system, however it malfunctioned. And for reasons I don't know, the driver had difficulty getting out of the car. It took him perhaps 30 seconds after the car was stopped before he got out. Meanwhile the back half of the car was engulfed in flame.

Fortunately he did get out safely and unharmed. Several extinguishers got emptied before the flames subsided.

Here is the aftermath:



This really makes you think about dry and brittle 30 year old fuel lines. This happened on the track but could have just as well been on the street. At least on the track, extinguishers where available.

A good extinguisher seems like a cheap insurance policy.

[cegerer]

OK, that's it. I'm not driving my car again until I've got an extinguisher. Been putting it off and putting it off. Thanks for the reminder Chuck. -- Curt

[Jack Olsen]

"Multiple extinguishers were used."

It makes me think it makes sense to get one of those three-exit fire suppression systems. What are they, like, $500? One Halon tank probably wouldn't cut it for an amateur firefighter alone on the side of the highway.

[74911s]

i was out at the streets with chuck this weekend and saw the carnage first hand.

in a real fire i think the small extinguisher i have in my car would actually do very little so i am now looking into fire systems, $500 would be cheap insurance for my car.

[Jack Olsen]

Any opinons on this set-up, for starters?

Wayne, have you considered selling the fixed setups?

[Wayne 962]

Check these babies out:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/DWKS/POR_DWKS_Safet2-main.htm

-Wayne

[Jack Olsen]

Bad link. You mean these?

The nice thing about the fixed kits is that you don't have to open a front or rear decklid (and serve the fire a big helping of ready-to-burn oxygen) to put the fire out.

[cary]

This is second fire post since I brought home my 914.
Replacing the fuel lines is one of my first projects when the weather gets a little better.
AeroQuip front to back.
I think I'll measure this weekend.......

[RoninLB]

IMO, learn how Halon performs and why...IMHO, after you think about what size bottle you need and what is suggested by mfg. double the size...I use the 1211...although chlorinated halon can decompose into deadly phosgene when the halon is exposed to red-hot metal..Phosgene gas is extremely toxic and be rapidly fatal at 50 ppm..try asking about that from your supplier...they MAY be able to give you an answer...Ron

[cstreit]

For a true fire system using Halon, consider using at least a 10 pounder...

Each system has it's flaws.. Dry chem systems are very caustic and often secondary fires erupt from their use because it eventually corodes wiring insulation...

SO if you use one, make sure you wash and clean ALL the chemical out of the car before certifying it as rebuilt!

[304065]

Check Otto's web site, there's another 914 that cooked off. Otto said that the mag case lit and it was show time. I would not have wanted to be looking directly at that when it happened.

I've got an all aeroquip fuel system for this reason exactly. Pictures coming next week with details. Also bought a Safety Devices AFFF system, not installed yet though. This system has multiple outlets, typical install is one on driver, one on fuel cell, one above motor/stacks. The only issue is, you can't selectively trigger the zones: to kill an engine fire you also have to foam the trunk.

These things are used when you are upside down and burning and can't get out: will flow AFFF foam (which will displace liquid fuel) for prox 1 minute after activation.

$500 or so from Stable Energies out in NJ, he's a stocking distributor and has BTDT.

[cegerer]

So based upon the replies, the prevailing opinion is that a handheld extinguisher is essentially useless and would only serve to add weight to the car????????????? -- Curt

[Phoenix]

uuhhmmm... IMHO... oh never mind. I've beatin' this horse to death and it's just to painful to re-live...

[RoninLB]

Curt...the fire devil is a mean MF...you do the best you can and hope for success...but that's it you hope!!!!! You try to give it your best shot...you rehearse where the fire may start..you rehearse what you will do...no time for thinking with smoke and flames..your brains are running at 25%-40% under intense stress...your heart is racing...your actions have been carefully thought out...your moving thru a dream that you planned...your avoiding the nightmare....
IMO, there is no absolute answer..the mechanical tools you use to fight fire is your problem to figure out..the tools are available..the education is available...you got the testosterone, I think you proved that..
So , what do I use??? I use what's good for me..It's different, probably, than the next guy..Do I think carbs are a bigger source for the fire devil than CIS??..Do I think a marine vapor proof circut breaker is safer than a fuse in a front 911 crash with gas lines ruptured?? Do I think a gas fume detector is necessary with fuel injection?? Do I want one for carbs??.....
So Curt, IMHO, don't let your meat loaf...........Ron

[Jim Sims]

A big fire extinguisher is better than a small fire extinguisher is better than trying to beat it out with a Levi jacket which is better (maybe) than throwing dirt from the side of road on the engine (carb. fire with air cleaner housing off) to letting the car burn to a hulk. I have seen or have close knowledge of all of the above; I'll choose the fire extinguisher even if its a small chemical one over having nothing. Cheers and change out those 30 year old fuel lines! Jim

[Laura]

Just for clarification, the owner says it was not caused by old fuel lines or improper installation. He gave the excuse that is was due to a screw left out of the filter??? The previous fire was due to a fuel line coming loose.

For whichever reason, everyone needs to be careful and do their own thorough tech inspection.

We were present at both of these incidents and were able to assist using our large halon extinguishers, but honestly even with those and other racers grabbing theirs, it is hard to get a handle on it quickly. We go to the track with 5 large extinguishers in the trailer, besides systems in the cars and extinguishers in the truck. You can never have too many!!!

From what I gather, POC is very concerned about this incident and has made arrangements to provide additional emergency services. But the participants need to do their part by making an extra effort to bring safely prepared vehicles to the track.

[MMARSH]

Something else that was of concern was the fact that the driver had a difficult time getting out of the vehicle in a hurry. The doors of the 914 were welded shut and in order for him to get out of his burning car, he had to take off the Nomex lined helmet he was wearing in order to climb thru the window. Probably not the best idea when the fire is behind your head. Just something for us to think about when were building your next track car.

[makaio]

MIke,

Let me get this straight, the driver had to take his helmet to exit the car? That is just stupid!

One thing for all you hand held extiguisher owners out there, remeber to attack the seat of the fire or base of the flames. If you don't, your just pi$$ing in the wind. Think of it as trying to plug a hole on a dam. You can just put your hand in front of the stream coming out, you have to place it on the dam.

[911pcars]

I know you guys don't need any more reminders, but I thought I'd show these anyway. We were on a spring break vacation with the family in the desert last week and happened upon this scene on the main drag.

I think it was a total loss (understatement), but everyone was okay (except for a ride home).

Sherwood Lee

click

click

click

Sorry about the bandwidth

[MMARSH]

Yeah Matt, Thats exactly what I'm saying. After this incident the very lucky owner plans to make some changes to his car.