Help - 911 Purchase Questions - Leakdown Failure

[livtoride]

New to the Porsche world and have decided on an 1987 911 Coupe.

Found one in Eastern Missouri (I'm In Las Vegas), but it failed (or didn't do well) the leak-down test. 1 - 28% 2 - 5% 3 - 20% 4 - 14% 5 - 14% 6 - 14%.

Prior to test the #2 Plug wire was off and had been driven. Obviously the plug was fouled, and replaced. Upon replacement the car ran much better. Leak-down was completed after this replacement.

Compression test was good, but PPI shop was non committal on saying that the car needed a top end. They said that a valve adjustment may improve the leak-down, but stopped short of saying that this could solve the problem.

Has anyone had a similar problem and seen leak-down improvement with Valve Adjustment?

I really don't want to do a top end on my 1st 911 right away.

[Driver_X]

Use it as a negotiating tool, get the top end done, and then you won't have to worry about it for likely as long as you own the car.

[livtoride]

My dilemma is that this car has great paint and interior, but there is one locally that has bad interior but is perfect mechanically. It will probably be a wash in the end.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by livtoride

My dilemma is that this car has great paint and interior, but there is one locally that has bad interior but is perfect mechanically. It will probably be a wash in the end.

I would call the car that needed the top end a better deal. Interior work can get expensive in a huge hurry. At least with a top end, you know about what the cost will be.

Now, the problem becomes one of if it is *only* a top end job that needs to be done...

[Nick Triesch]

What is the price of interior repair compared to a top end rebuild? Does the entire interior need to be done? The 911 costs a ton to fix the motor. Thousands if it is more than the top end.

[timchar]

What's wrong with interior? Seats, carpets? Tim

[jwasbury]

Originally Posted by Nick Triesch

The 911 costs a ton to fix the motor. Thousands if it is more than the top end.

Yep...there can even be a lot of variation in a "top end" job. If pistons and cylinders are needing replacement, that can be big $

[Winter]

I think the interior can be pretty easy to sort out, specifically if you do it on your own and source the needed stuff from the Pelican classifieds. The exception is nice seats, particularly sport seats.

You should post photos of the interior of the questionable car (well, questionable interior) as well as do some searches here on interior rehabs.

In the end, I guess it has to do with how nice you need your interior to be. Serviceable or show quality?

Lots of ways to save money as a DIY person on the interior. Less opportunities to take shortcuts with engine work.

Good luck with the search and let us know how it turns out.

[timchar]

Was the shop that did comp and leakdown tests an unbiased shop or did owner know them? Tim

[vulcan300]

I was quoted about 3K including material for a full leather recover of the interior in my car. That included front and rear seats, door cards, rear side panels, and door tops. It would probably be another 500 if I needed to do the dash and the rear pad behind the seats. This might give you something to compare to the cost of a top end. However, as some have said, you never know just how much work will be needed when you tear into an engine. The cost of doing an interior is more easy to precisely estimate.

J

[timchar]

I personally would take the interior work over a top end. A very vague value on top end with you doing is approximately 4 k, professional doing, probably 7-8 k. Those numbers can vary significantly depending on what you may find. You can get front seats recovered and do carpet yourself for about 1400.00. Tim

[livtoride]

Thanks for the replies. The shop was unbiased and very thorough. I found them through pca sites and pelican. It's really a hard question and comparing apples and oranges. The shop says its a good car but I'd really like to be sure that I can get some miles out I it before it needs a top end. Red Interior is almost perfect for an 87 and they are the sport seats.

[Reiver]

what is the mileage on the vehicle? That is a lot of variation on the leak down.
A top end done by a good shop that addresses rings/pistons/cams will run 5 to 6 thousand unless there are serious issues.
I'd pay to have the valves adjusted as an insurance policy and have the leak down re done. BTW, if the valves were that far out of adjustment that is also an indicator the car may not have been prop maintained (as in check your oil pressure and oil consumption).

[livtoride]

125k on the car and service history is somewhat thorough. Compression is really good. Car has been only slightly use for last 6-7 years. The overall condition is really good. This would be easy if I wasn't 1600 miles away.

[quattrorunner]

Anyone in saint Louis wanna go have a look?
I like the idea of having them adjust valvs and drive it a little bit getting it to temperature then redo those tests too.

[john walker's workshop]

if it never had a valve grind and it has 125K miles, rest assured that the guides are loose, it uses some oil due to that and the valve seats are worn out of round from the valve beating around on them due to loose guides. 3.2 heads tend to have really worn valve seats at that mileage. i do all my heads here, so i see this a lot. that's generally where the high leakdown comes from. round valve on an out of round seat.

[moneymanager]

I drove a car which had 30% in one cylinder for seven years before redoing the motor. It ran strongly and was never a problem. If no one had told me, I'd never have noticed it. Others here have had the same experience. I did use the knowledge to get the price reduced some.

[yelcab1]

Originally Posted by timchar

I personally would take the interior work over a top end. A very vague value on top end with you doing is approximately 4 k, professional doing, probably 7-8 k. Those numbers can vary significantly depending on what you may find. You can get front seats recovered and do carpet yourself for about 1400.00. Tim

I did mine top end myself, with a very well know shop doing the machine work, for $1,000.

That statement above is so innaccurate, it is not funny.

For this case, I would drive it hard for 3 months and redo the leak down. If it is getting better, leave it alone. If it is still around 30% leak down, then do the top end.

[livtoride]

Update - I've purchased the car and will post pictures when it arrives. Thanks for the help!!!

[timchar]

Originally Posted by yelcab1

I did mine top end myself, with a very well know shop doing the machine work, for $1,000.

That statement above is so innaccurate, it is not funny.

For this case, I would drive it hard for 3 months and redo the leak down. If it is getting better, leave it alone. If it is still around 30% leak down, then do the top end.

Do a search here on (TRUE TOP END REBUILD), see what numbers you come up with. A shop will charge 6-7 hundred to pull motor and the same again to put back in. Depends how diligent you are and what you find. That's where the word "vague" comes in. I have never seen anyone do it for 1k. Maybe he can pay you 2k and you can do it for him? Tim