Putting a 6 cyl in a 912?

[johnvan8]

Hello all,
I currently have a 67 912 that I use as a weekly driver (1-2 times/week). It's in very good condition but not concours or anything. A very solid driver. I love the narrow body looks of the early cars but sometimes wish for a little more power. So my long term plan is to eventually put a 6 in the 912. The current motor is running fine but when it eventually dies, I think I'd rather transplant a 6 than do a rebuild. So my questions are:
1. Which motor will be the easiest to transplant? I plan to keep the 901 tranny if possible. A 2.2, 2.4 or 2.7?
2. What major parts should I be on the lookout for?
3. Go with carbs or MFI?
4. How big of a job (in terms of hourly labor) is this for an experienced Porsche mechanic? I have very little skill and would most likely pay to have it done.
This will be a long term project as I plan to gather the necessary pieces slowly (budget constraints) while enjoying the 616 motor.
Thanks in advance for your input.
John

[Danny_Ocean]

912 Registry :: Welcome!

Convert a 912 to 912-6 ?

[Evans, Marv]

#1 - They're all the same.
#2 - See Danny's links. It's a lot.
#3 - Probably carbs unlless the six comes with MFI
#4 - A huge job whether you do it or pay someone to do it. Huge amount of $ if you pay to have it done.
My suggestions: 1) Sell the car & buy a 911. 2) Put a built type 2 or something similar into it.

[Evans, Marv]

Plus, use the search function. There are lots of threads on that. They're interesting too.

[TOO RUF]

I would say its very easy. I did this when I was 16, 24 years ago. What I did learn is that 912 body motor mount location needs to be reinforced to support th 911 engine. New fuel pump, reinforce motor mounts and go.. As far as I remember.

[Kraftwerk]

But what if the 912 never conks out?

It might be worth something and could offset costs, a little.

[80-911SC]

one thing being missed here is the handling benifit that a 912 has over the "bigger' brother

A well set up 912 can do wonders on an autocross course ... you can get quite a bit of power out of a 4 cylinder with a little carb and exhaust work go a bit deeper and look into cams etc and the power can be found with out adding the weight of the extra two cylinders .. true the acceleration and top end may not be there but you could always look into dropping a turbo ... they have been known to make a VW feel like a super car .. until the VW hits the first corner then it becomes evidently clear that it is still a VW .. you should not run into that problem though because at turn 1 you are driving a PORSCHE ...

Just food for thought .. from the other side of the discussion .......

Steve

[Laneco]

We've converted SWB 912 that someone else had put a six into BACK to the 4 configuration and converted an LWB 912 into a six. You know, it just wasn't that hard. If you had to pay someone to do it, it would be expensive, but it wasn't terribly HARD.

To the suggestions above though, let me throw out another. Pull the 912 engine and keep it aside, put in a BUILT large displacement Type 4. They're throwing some crazy power out of those for less than can build an equal 912 engine or even a similar small displacement 911 engine. Now it's not cheap, but it fits, won't upset the balance, and keeps your original engine aside for a quick reinstall if/when you later change your mind. No mods to the car's motor mounts, etc.

Just an idea.

angela

[80-911SC]

I was going to suggest the type 4 swap but figured i would get chastised for the recommendation.. I guess it sounds better calling it a type 4 vs putting a VW engine in it ..

but you can get a VW Pancake that will flat out run though ..

[rsNINESOOPER]

I would suggest putting the original engine in mothballs if original to the car if you decide to go with 911 power and put a short stroke 2.4 ltr in its place or a stock 2.0, 2.2, 2.4, or 2.7.

my opinion is once you put a hot motor like a 3.2 ltr in the back end of a short wheelbase early car with stock fenders it is going to be unruly and a handful to drive when the go pedal gets mashed in the twisties. I for one have no ability to not drive a 911 without using the power that happens to be on tap. The 2.2 - 2.7 ltr engines are plenty of power for a street car.


Ill say this while ducking, although I really like this option......

OR....... you could put a type 4 914 engine as already mentioned built up by someone who knows what they are doing for less money and wind up with a low buck hotrod while maintaining the Porsche power. All while not having to cut the 912 engine mounts out and weld in 911 engine mounts. The 912 is an excellent car and I prefer my old hotrod 912 over my 911 in many ways. I am currently helping a friend set his 912 up exactly like this. It will be driven a few times a week.

[rolls 912]

I put a 3.2 / 915 in mine. Its an easy conversion except for fabricating new axles.

I have a well set up carbed 356. Pain in the rear.

Efi - start and she goes, any weather, anytime. Good heating, lots of go.

[PeterRT]

+1 on the type 4 so it won't turn into just another 911.
Look around in the beetle scene, some quite angry engines out there (how about 250 hp from an aircooled 2.8l flat four ). In a light, original looking 912 with Volkswagen sound this could result in some very frightened Elevens....

[johnvan8]

Thanks all for your inputs. Wow, this is getting real interesting. I did think about a type 4 motor but understand that the gearbox would have to be opened to change the gearing of 4th and 5th since the type 4 is not happy revving high at freeway speeds (currently around 4k rpm at 65-70 mph). I'm not against the idea, but it seems like another major step in the process (I may be wrong?). In regards to handling, I understand the disadvantage of more weight in the back, but I don't plan to ever autocross the car or do any serious "canyon carving", etc. Let's face it, I'm a middle aged guy just taking the 912 out for my commute a couple times a week; if I can take the I-5 onramp at 45 instead of the posted 25, I'm pretty happy
I just sometimes wish for a little more "merging" power onto 70mph traffic. Plus, with a 6cyl motor, it seems there are so many more opportunities for "tweaking" the motor. As suggested, buying an early 911 in the same condition as my 912 is financially out of the question (seems like you can't touch a decent one for less than $30k). Thank you for the posts and keep them coming!

[BK911]

912s are starting to see a nice increase in value, at least in asking prices.
Personally, no way I would convert to a -6.
You can easily get 125+ reliable hp from a -4 that will bolt right in.
You can be building that NOW while you are driving, and do the swap in a weekend.
Same hp as an early T with better weight distribution and probably better gas mileage.
No brainer IMHO.

[5String43]

Lack of merging power and the feeling that I was pushing the car harder than I liked when actually out on the freeways going somewhere were two of the reasons I sold a quite nice '69 912 Targa and replaced it with the SC Targa that now is my daily driver.

I should think that with the prices nice 912s are bringing these days, selling the 912 and using the proceeds to finance a 911 would be a viable option. When I did that, I was struck by how much more subtantial the 911 feels, and how sweetly the thing blasts down the road.

A downside is that you have to face smog testing every two years, but what I find is that the sweet spot for the SC is a wide one, and allows it to cruise easily at 75 mph - or more. And it's just as much fun on on-ramps as the 912 was - plus, wonderful things happen when that tach needles indicates 4000 rpm, so much so that it pays to be careful with this characteristic.

Yeah, I kind of miss the 912 sometimes, in part because that longhood style is so pretty, but mostly I'm not looking back. I find the 911 to be a lot more satisfying.

[Lukesportsman]

1. "Classic Porsche" Magazine is starting one of the projects themselves so might take a look.
2. Too expensive IF your NOT doing it YOURSELF
3. Can be lots of fun. They built a lot. If your building a hotrod (as my 76 912e) then why not cut up a 12' rather than a 11'. This is just a personal opinion
4. Yes, obviously a VW can go fast, but so can a V8 but they both give a a different character as does a turbo
5. 2.8 at 8000 rpm through stacks vs VW pulling away from idle.....which do you dream about?
6. Its just not THAT hard if you do lots of research
7. Sure they are getting expensive, but a pristine 12' is still under 20k. A nice longhood 11' is nearing 40k so there is some wiggle room to build
8. If it gets you into one of these WONDERFUL little cars sooner, you won't regret it and how many of us actually make financial sense with our cars? (yeah I'll take some fake forged Fuchs in RSR finish for $3500 to bolt onto my orginally a T coupe)

9. Get what you WANT. Build what your heart DREAMS about and We'll be here to help you make it whatever YOU desire!