Ethanol Fuels

[Wil Ferch]

Some advice sought.....

Some years ago, only a few gas stations were selling ethanol fuels and the Porsche tech books say to avoid these fuels. I'm speaking of spec books and maybe owner's manuals for cars that run up to the mid-80's. Seems the rubber and elastomers used by Porsche at that time ( and as used by a few other manufacturers) would get eaten-up by this stuff. Fuel lines would leak and rot, etc, etc.....

Fast forward to later years....there was a time when the stations clearly labeled "10% ethanol" in their fuels...and I would avoid them for my 85 Carrera. You had a choice. Today,however, ALL fuel stations have ethanol. No choice anymore. Trouble is.....what's the alternative? Are we going to see a rash of fuel system failures in our "older" cars?

[PorscheGAL]

Will,

Sorry to hear you do not have a choice between buying fuel types. Currently, we do here in South Carolina. We have a few local gas stations that provide non-ethanol gas and they do a good business. Some even advertise that their gas has no ethanol.

I know small engines are a world apart from our 911/930 engines, but it is curious to see that ethanol gas voids the warranty on small engines. Recently, we purchased leaf blower and the manufacture warns against the use of ethanol of any amount in the gas. Obviously, the manufactures of these engines have found ethanol in fuel to be harmful in some way.

This brings me to my point. If 10% ethanol can effect the workings of a small engine, it makes you think it can cause damage to our engines.

Keep a look out for a non-ethanol gas station in you area and then support it with your business.

[jasonlee]

i commented on this recently. In Vancouver Canada, at Chevron at least where i buy gas, only the 94 octane has no ethanol, anything lower contains up to 10% ethanol. Which would be a bummer if I put anything less than 94 in my car, which at the time i though was overkill, now I am glad I did.

[Wil Ferch]

I'm tellin ya..... no choice anymore within hundreds of miles !!!!

As we all know, distributor's products are equally used in a number of different brand name gas stations. I drive the east coast a lot and get down to areas like New Bern NC .... are you sure you folks have a choice?...I think it's going the way of the dinosaur. I don't think they have to label "ethanol" anymore...as there may be no alternative.

[HarryD]

I havew been living in area where non-ethanol fuel has not been availabe for years (unless I buy Race gas).

Since I have no choice, I add Marine Sta-bil to every tankful and hope for the best. so far, so good.

[Wil Ferch]

Harry:
Good show...but unless we are chemists or unless we speak to the tech support people of Sta-Bill.... it might only be a feel-good placebo affect. Since you've been doing this for years...maybe you're OK. I also use Cevron Techron regularly to keep fuel injectors clean...maybe it does the same thing?

[HarryD]

Wil:

The Sta-bil folks do market the product for Ethanol laced fuels. I know the red Sta-bil is a tried and true product for preserving fuel so I figure they just might know something and it seems I have little to lose. Per the Sta-bil (http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/products.aspx#marine_formula) folks:

"Marine Formula STA-BIL
•America's #1 Selling Marine Fuel Additive Brand!
•BEST Ethanol Problem Fighter
•More than FOUR TIMES the Fuel System Cleaner than in Regular STA-BIL
•DOUBLE the corrosion preventer than in Regular STA-BIL
•Prevents corrosion from moisture & ethanol-induced water attraction
•Improves marine engine performance YEAR-ROUND, not just for seasonal storage "

Like you, I also add Techron just before each oil change to clean the injectors. Again, mostly voo-doo but I feel better and it seems to help.

[JJ 911SC]

Back home, in Ontario Canada, only Shell does not have Ethanol in any of their grade but they don't have 94.

I talk to SW about this as I need my Chip to be reprogram for SSIs. Should I stay with 91 no ethanol or 94 with? He mentioned that the difference was about 3-4 hp after 4500 rpm at full throttle. He recommended that the availability of the grade should be the driver.

So I was going to go with the Shell 91 but today at the Porschefest at Calabogie, someone mentioned that Ultramar has 94 without ethanol so I'll check it out.

That being said, "apparently" in 2011, all gas in Canada will required to have a minimum of 5%... Can you spell Death by Regulation

[Por_sha911]

Sta-bil will help with the water problem that comes with fuel mixed with ethanol. It doesn't help with the ethanol attacking seals. Be sure to write your congressman and tell them what idiots they were for pushing this scam on the public (not to mention subsidizing it). Someone in Congress must have a brother who grows corn...
Oh, I checked less than a year ago and the law states they must put a label on the pump if ethanol is present. Likewise, they must remove the label if it is pure gas.

[theiceman]

JJ only the vpower has no ethanol .. the others do .. check there web site ..

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by theiceman

JJ only the vpower has no ethanol .. the others do .. check there web site ..

Time to move to Alberta...


Shell Canada includes 10% Ethanol in the regular 'Bronze' grade 87 Octane gasoline in several provinces, including Ontario, but not Alberta.

Shell also sells 'Silver' mid-grade 89 Octane, which is blended at the retail pump from 1/2 regular, and 1/2 premium 91 Octane.

Shell 'V-Power' Premium gasoline contains NO Ethanol, so the mid-grade Silver contains 5% Ethanol.

[RoninLB]

i have trouble keeping plugs clean at altitude if i lolly around for too long w/E-10

before i hit the open roads again sta-bil helps clean the plugs in one tank

saves me from flipping plugs or the engine running and responding like crap at 3.5-4k in 5th

at sea level E-10 is doable



E-10 is a tree hugger scam

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by RoninLB

... E-10 is a tree hugger scam

Now that they got E-15 out I'm sure the huggers a pushing fo 20

[RoninLB]

if it wasn't mandatory i could live with schmucks using it

[GrantG]

Here's a database of all the Ethanol-free stations in the country:

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

[GrantG]

Originally Posted by JJ 911SC

Now that they got E-15 out I'm sure the huggers a pushing fo 20

Tree huggers are not responsible - it's the Corn farmers and Ethanol lobbyists. Ethanol is not good for anything other than profits (lousy for efficiency - takes more to make the same power, re-purposes crops from the food supply, and wrecks your car).

No Presidential candidate who opposes Ethanol can be elected since the Iowa Caucuses are early in the process and the Iowa farmers will kill your candidacy before it starts if you oppose Ethanol.

[Wil Ferch]

GrantG:

Thanks for the list....so I checked the entries.

Get this--> since I'm near Buffalo, NY, I check the list. It says Kwik Fill on Walden Ave does NOT use ethanol. That location also has a sub-link embedded called "details". As I click on that link....it says ...."Now HAS ethanol".. What the Heck !!

As I guessed......1.) there wouldn't be ONE Kwik Fill station that does NOT use ethanol...as ALL gas stations in my area ( I suspect like most areas of the country)..are serviced by wholesale distributors pumping out the same junk to everyone....and 2.) I recall every Kwik Fill I went to ..along with every other brand name station I went to locally...has "the label" saying it's laced with ethanol.

Also this---> Por_sha 911 is correct when saying... " Sta-bil will help with the water problem that comes with fuel mixed with ethanol. It doesn't help with the ethanol attacking seals.."

Not just seals....but all the plastics and rubber hoses and other like-kind items used in fuel systems thru mid-80's cars. The manufacturers ( even foreign like Porsche) wised up for later cars and made the rubber-stuff resistent to ethanol attack for LATER cars.....

But I think us-guys with cars up to about 85-89 are in real trouble...what irks me is that we have no alternative but to risk failure / leaks / fires...or don't drive ! A mess.

[GrantG]

Originally Posted by Wil Ferch

Also this---> Por_sha 911 is correct when saying... " Sta-bil will help with the water problem that comes with fuel mixed with ethanol. It doesn't help with the ethanol attacking seals.."

Don't forget that it makes your car significantly slower too

[Wil Ferch]

Slower...less economical on mileage.....that you can swallow. But damaging my car with no alternatives to use......or having my car as a big paperweight.....makes this almost criminal !!

[RWebb]

rather than press criminal charges, I suggest we use this thread to list the seals that might be damaged by high EtOH levels for PMO carburetors in cars that have CIS based fuel tanks and fuel pumps...