to H4 or not to...what is needed ?

[Luc Bernier]

I've tried to clean my original headlights, following advices in this thread, not much of a result.

I'm debating : seeing where I'm going at night (!) and changing the original look of the car, or leaving it the way it is...

oh, one more thing : on pelican parts, I see kits at 260$, and also only lens for less money. what kit is needed ?
cheers

Luc

[Brandon-FL]

I just switched from the sealed beams and sugar scoops to Bosch H4's I bought a pair off on E-Bay for $350 shipped. Much better visibility from the headlights and I like the look of the H4's versus the stock assemblies.

I figure I can get $100+ for the stock headlight assemblies and trim which makes it a $250 upgrade for much better visibility and an updated look for my 912.

Here is a link to the listing on E-bay for the "new" Bosch H4s (bulbs are not included):

eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

[Jesse16]

Do you want to improve looks or lighting ? H4 refers to the bulb by the way, not the lens itself. You'd have new lenses and 300% better lighting with a new pair of 7" round Hella or Cibie non-sealed beam assemblies that will simply replace you current sealed units. Then go with normal or high wattage H4 bulbs depending on what if any wiring improvements you're into. That the easy and it'll get you all the light you'll ever need or realistically can actually get.
After that, more money just buys a different "look". Newer Bosch assemblies as our host sells aren't more light, just a different European light/lens/housing. The use the same H4 bulbs as above.
You'd be very happy light wise with the new lights and bulbs. I've always used Cibies, can be had from Daniel Stern lighting often mentioned when lighting discussions happen.

[Luc Bernier]

Originally Posted by Jesse16

Do you want to improve looks or lighting ? H4 refers to the bulb by the way, not the lens itself. You'd have new lenses and 300% better lighting with a new pair of 7" round Hella or Cibie non-sealed beam assemblies that will simply replace you current sealed units. Then go with normal or high wattage H4 bulbs depending on what if any wiring improvements you're into. That the easy and it'll get you all the light you'll ever need or realistically can actually get.
After that, more money just buys a different "look". Newer Bosch assemblies as our host sells aren't more light, just a different European light/lens/housing. The use the same H4 bulbs as above.
You'd be very happy light wise with the new lights and bulbs. I've always used Cibies, can be had from Daniel Stern lighting often mentioned when lighting discussions happen.

Jesse16 : just want to improve the lighting and keep the look as is

[donporfi]

Brandon-FL
The headlights sold from that vendor I think are reproductions made in Czechoslovakia, I do not know if those are made by a real Bosch company. The lenses do not have Bosch markings, they have a marking ATL or something like that. The packing has Bosch markings.

Luc you can buy H4 sealed beam headlights, that would be the less expensive. If you want to change the look of your car you can buy the Euro H4s, that will cost about $540 from our host plus the H4 bulbs. If you want to use more powerful H4 bulbs a relay kit is a must.
It is very easy to change the headlights. Usually one screw and a connector.

[Dublinoh]

Originally Posted by Jesse16

Do you want to improve looks or lighting ? H4 refers to the bulb by the way, not the lens itself. You'd have new lenses and 300% better lighting with a new pair of 7" round Hella or Cibie non-sealed beam assemblies that will simply replace you current sealed units. Then go with normal or high wattage H4 bulbs depending on what if any wiring improvements you're into. That the easy and it'll get you all the light you'll ever need or realistically can actually get.
After that, more money just buys a different "look". Newer Bosch assemblies as our host sells aren't more light, just a different European light/lens/housing. The use the same H4 bulbs as above.
You'd be very happy light wise with the new lights and bulbs. I've always used Cibies, can be had from Daniel Stern lighting often mentioned when lighting discussions happen.

+1. This is what you want, no visible change but much better light. Back in the 70s this was the only option and it worked great. Your chrome rings look great on that era car by the way.

[Arne2]

Originally Posted by donporfi

Brandon-FL
The headlights sold from that vendor I think are reproductions made in Czechoslovakia, I do not know if those are made by a real Bosch company. The lenses do not have Bosch markings, they have a marking ATL or something like that. The packing has Bosch markings.

Just got a pair from this vendor a few weeks ago. Bosch boxes, and Bosch markings on all parts, including the lenses. Bosch does make a lot of their stuff in places other than Germany these days. But these are the real thing, not repros. That vendor can supply either chrome or black ring at the same price. They are drop-shipped direct from a California Bosch warehouse/distributor.

But I also agree that a new set of Cibie or Hella 7" lights in the stock sugar scoops is the best bang for the buck. (I have used both, personally prefer Hella, but YMMV.) The Bosch OE units are all about the look.

[Luc Bernier]

thanks for the infos, really helpful,
now, any suggestions on where I should buy that new pair of 7" round Hella ?
pelican parts ?
ebay ?

[Porchcar guy]

Do a search engine search for 7" round H4 headlamps...many available ...price from $38

[Luc Bernier]

thanks

[porwolf]

Interesting thread on an alternative to the Bosch H4 light look. Here it is even suggested to include HID lights into the headlight housings. But Cibie or Hella H4 cores could substitute the sealed beam lamps.

Projector Headlights for less than $100????? HID for less than $400????

[Arne2]

Originally Posted by Arne2

Just got a pair from this vendor a few weeks ago. Bosch boxes, and Bosch markings on all parts, including the lenses.

I was wrong. I took another look at them tonight, and while the packaging and the labels on the back side of the reflectors are marked Bosch, the lenses do have a stylized "AL" logo instead of Bosch. So I did a little searching, I got this from Bosch's corporate website:

"In 1999, the Bosch Lighting Technology division was transferred to Automotive Lighting GmbH, a joint venture with the Italian company Magneti Marelli S.p.A."

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by Luc Bernier

thanks for the infos, really helpful,
now, any suggestions on where I should buy that new pair of 7" round Hella ?
pelican parts ?
ebay ?

Around here, you can get the same lights you have from just about any Auto Parts Store. Just look for Hella H4 replacement headlamps. In the US, they come in two floavors: DOT approved and "For off road use" Euro (E code) type. They cosst about $60 each for the reflector, dust seal and 55/60 W H4 Bulb. Our host has them here:

Pelican Parts - Product Information: 70476-M44

I put these in my car to replace the DOT Sealed beams and it was a massive improvement.

[nesslar]

Tons of great info here, but lose the scoops anyway, please.... No contest in the look. Night and day 'ugly vs. cool'....just $.02. Orig. is cool too....bottom line is H4 lighting is great, even the lower wattage version is plenty!!

[RSBob]

They key piece of missing info here is that if you want to go with brighter bulbs than 55/60 in your new headlights you really need to go with the Euro style 7" rounds because they have a sharp cut off and will not blind oncoming drivers. Of course you will need relays as mentioned above. If you put hotter bulbs in SAE/DOT lenses you will also have a less efficient light pattern since it will go all over.- If you crave more than good, go with the 80/100s bulbs/relays and you will never need anything more.

Edit: I have 100/120s in the 911 and am currently installing 80/100s in euro lenses with upgraded wiring and fused relays in the 914. About half done on the rewire and looking forward to the result.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by RSBob

They key piece of missing info here is that if you want to go with brighter bulbs than 55/60 in your new headlights you really need to go with the Euro style 7" rounds because they have a sharp cut off and will not blind oncoming drivers. Of course you will need relays as mentioned above. If you put hotter bulbs in SAE/DOT lenses you will also have a less efficient light pattern since it will go all over.- If you crave more than good, go with the 80/100s bulbs/relays and you will never need anything more.

Edit: I have 100/120s in the 911 and am currently installing 80/100s in euro lenses with upgraded wiring and fused relays in the 914. About half done on the rewire and looking forward to the result.

If you want to keep the sugar scoops (hey, some of us like them!), go with the E code ones that have the Euro cut-off pattern.

[lynn911]

I have just gone through an H4 upgrade,
Initially I just reolaced the lences and bulbs, within two weeks I lost low beams on the drivers side then high beams on the other?
After checking the bulbs I noticed brown discoloration on both plastic bulb fittings (stock)
I ordered ceramic bulb holders and heavier wiring tnen built the relay kit for both high and low beams , switching the heavy current running to the Hi/Lo switch!
While I was in there I switched the fog light power source so they would work on the parking lights!
All the information was found on this forum ,for which I am appreciative

[donporfi]

Arne2
Thanks for the info on Bosch/ Automotive Lighting.
OK, these are original Bosch but with other markings, and for the price a very good deal.
I started another post on this matter, but you already solved this.

[47silver]

PEL-H4-70477
I installed these 2 years ago with round porsche relays (4 total as i used one per beam per side i use the 55/60 watt bulb and the light is significant improvement over stock but not better than the BMW hid's
However, i helped a friend do the same on his porsche and he used the 80/100 watt bulbs. It is miraculous when you use the high beams on a straight country road at dead dark midnight illuminates the road like it is california sunny daylight. And in my opinion the light is much better than the high beam's on our HID BMW.

[Luc Bernier]

Originally Posted by HarryD

Around here, you can get the same lights you have from just about any Auto Parts Store. Just look for Hella H4 replacement headlamps. In the US, they come in two floavors: DOT approved and "For off road use" Euro (E code) type. They cosst about $60 each for the reflector, dust seal and 55/60 W H4 Bulb. Our host has them here:

Pelican Parts - Product Information: 70476-M44

I put these in my car to replace the DOT Sealed beams and it was a massive improvement.

Thanks HarryD
just got a pair of these
do I need to worry about other parts for this modifications (electric point of view) ?