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jluetjen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Westford, MA USA
Posts: 8,852
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Drift = The contact patch is pointing in a slightly different direction then the wheel. Tire distortion takes up the difference. For street tires you're talking about 5 degrees or less of difference between the angles. With racing slicks the difference is smaller still. An important point is that the contact patch is rolling across the pavement.

Sliding is just that. The contact patch is being dragged across the pavement causing the rubber to be buffed off of the tire.

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'69 911E

"It's a poor craftsman who blames their tools" -- Unknown
"Any suspension -- no matter how poorly designed -- can be made to work reasonably well if you just stop it from moving." -- Colin Chapman
Old 04-26-2002, 01:38 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #21 (permalink)
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Location: Fairfax, VA.
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I don't like to see newbie ax'ers doing anything other than learning the basic car control skills. Find out how your car performs and build on a solid foundation toward more advanced driving skills.
Trail braking is an advanced tool for a driver to use to help rotate the car. Drivers new to ax'ing should rely on the steering wheel.
Doubtful that there are 10% of the turns at a normal ax that trail braking would be appropriate. Trying to modulate the brakes from threshold braking and turning into the turn is nothing but finesse. A new driver would be way ahead of the game to learn to have the correct entering speed that would allow him to get back on the gas as early as possible than to try trail braking at every turn.
Paul posted the most poignant part of this entire thread.
"As an elderly autocrosser once told me after a run... "Son, if you'd just slow down you'd be a whole lot faster." "
This is a hell of a lot harder skill to learn than trail braking.
Old 04-26-2002, 01:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #22 (permalink)
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Linn County, Oregon
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Out of 2nd gear? Western Oregon and Washington series, early 1970's. Autocrosses were often held on oval tracks, pylons in the corners to "slow things" down. Also Autocrosses were held at Portland international raceway...the Corvette club especially, liked to design power courses, using almost all of PIR's main straight. Lots of 3rd, into 4th even, courses back then...these events were mixed in with the 1st & 2nd gear parking lot stuff. Here's a pic of the old "silver weinie" at one of the oval tracks, the now defunct Salem Speedway...driver is Todd Webb...he was quick in his day.
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Old 04-26-2002, 02:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #23 (permalink)
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Location: Lacey, WA. USA
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I have a strong suspicion that JP is understating his level of skill and knowledge. Eloquently, I might add.

I am intrigued by some of the talk above and am anxious to put some of it to work at Bremerton. I'd agree that an AX setup is likely very very different from a track setup. In AX for example, a ton of negative camber is useful and perhaps toe out. I'm gussing that track strategy is more linear.

I notice that the best AXers keep their cars is virtually constant drift. CONTROLLED constant drift. I notice that my car pushes a bit more than I like, and I also notice that lifting the throttle briefly puts my front tires back in control. Last Saturday at Bremerton, I was able to significantly improve my performance by slowing down. Entry speed into a corner is an almost insignificant factor, unless that speed is too high, in which case you will lose a great deal of time and speed. Exit speed is incredibly important, since all of the speeds you can achieve in a "straight" are higher, the higher your corner exit speed was. Some of these guys who get into trouble at th eturnarounds would have been quicker if they had gone out to the end cone and STOPPED THE CAR, turned around and resumed.

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Old 04-26-2002, 03:01 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #24 (permalink)
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