911 motor ID question

[helosixx]

Just picked up a 1970 911S with what I'm told is a 2.4 motor. the number on top the fan is 9011061015R and the engine number I found was 962170. Was expecting to see a 630XXX number. Am I looking in the wrong place?

[Rob T.]

i think you have to search here:

[Grady Clay]

It is a 911S, just very late 1967.
The range of numbers are 961141 to 962178.
Your 962170 is eight from the last of that series.
A good 'find'.

It was originally equipped with the Weber 40IDS carbs. Are they still there?

The insides could be original 2.0 (1991 cc) or all the way up to 2808 cc.
Take some pictures of the bottoms of the cylinders at the crankcase and the under-inside of the heads.

Best,
Grady

[Grady Clay]

The engine number 962170 (red arrow below) faces to the rear on aluminum case engines.
The type number (green arrow below) is stamped vertically.





The type number should be 901/02.

There is a ‘build number’ alongside the type number. It should be just above number 9178 (for engine 962163).
Type 901/xx Engine Build #'s

There are also a ‘casting date’ on the rear of the engine and a pair of ‘matching parting numbers’ stamped vertically in the top of the crankcase under the fan shroud.

Please report these numbers as you find them.

Good find indead!!
This is far more significant (and valuable) that a "2.4 motor".

Now you need to look for a 1970 2.2S engine for your car.
In the interum, you can use almost any 911 engine.
Since youe 'S' was originally MFI, you might work to sourcing any MFI engine so the chassis is 'MFI compatable'.

Best,
Grady

[helosixx]

Originally Posted by Grady Clay

The engine number 962170 (red arrow below) faces to the rear on aluminum case engines.
The type number (green arrow below) is stamped vertically.





The type number should be 901/02.

There is a ‘build number’ alongside the type number. It should be just above number 9178 (for engine 962163).
Type 901/xx Engine Build #'s

There are also a ‘casting date’ on the rear of the engine and a pair of ‘matching parting numbers’ stamped vertically in the top of the crankcase under the fan shroud.

Please report these numbers as you find them.

Good find indead!!
This is far more significant (and valuable) that a "2.4 motor".

Now you need to look for a 1970 2.2S engine for your car.
In the interum, you can use almost any 911 engine.
Since youe 'S' was originally MFI, you might work to sourcing any MFI engine so the chassis is 'MFI compatable'.

Best,
Grady

Grady, Thanks so much... I may pull the motor and sell the 911S. Will post the numbers as I find them.
Sincerely,
Ben

[helosixx]

I think the Carbs are still there. Im picking the car up next week and will post photos.

[helosixx]

Grady, Thanks so much for the info... was skimming the red book and totally missed that. Thinking about selling the 911S with trans and keeping the motor.

[Grady Clay]

helosixx,
I neglected to say WELCOME to the Pelican Forum
You will find a lot of help here.

As you can see, we have a worldwide group of Porsche entheuiasts, ready, willing and able for mutual assistance.

Go to ‘User Control Panel’, ‘Your Profile’ and ‘Edit Your Details’. Down under ‘Additional Information and ‘Location’ add your location. Appropriate are city, state & country.
This will help you find local Pelicans who can offer a ‘practiced eye’ for your project.



The “9011061015R” is the casting number for the fan housing – neither a part number nor an engine identification number.
In fact that part is for a 1969-1977 engine (note the mount for the ignition transformer (‘coil’)).
No doubt there will have been other ‘improvements’ that may need to be reversed.
The value in the engine is ‘originality’.

If it has been seriously modified, it may be a very nice (fun) hot-rod.

I’m looking forward to seeing the condition of the 911S and the engine.
There is a great deal we can tell from simple observation. Keep posting your excellent pictures.
Some things will remain a mystery unless you completely disassemble.


What are your intensions?
If the ‘70S is structurally sound (no rust or improper repair), it is a fine 911 – one of the best ever.
You can build a “1970 911S – appearing” engine that can have significant increase in power.
The chassis already (should) have the front oil cooler system.
A well-built type 911 transmission will survive engines to about 2.8 liters (some think more – controversial).
All of the decades-long ‘improvements’ can fit with no modifications.

Again, the value is in originality.
However, if there are appropriate mods, you may want to retain them for your driving enjoyment.

If you decide to sell the chassis and keep the engine, high quality (able to be restored) ‘67S chassis are VERY hard to find (and $$,$$$).
The restoration of a SWB 911 (’64-’68) is far more difficult and expensive than a similar condition LWB (’69-‘73) ‘long-hood’ 911.


We will anxiously wait to see the car and engine.

Best,
Grady

[helosixx]

Will make sure to post more photos of the car, just have to pick it up. Car is a bit of a hot rod. Not very original. I know the engine has been hot rodded. I believe it's about a 2.4L now.
As for the car, it's a 1970 911S with a sunroof, some body tweeks to make it look newer were installed but on the positive side not much rust. Its currently Black which I'm not sure is the org color or not.
I'm still up in the air with what I'm doing with it. I may pull the motor and sell just the car/tranny as a project or I may just turn it into a all out hotrod since most of the work is done on the motor already. I've gotta think about.

Thank you again for sending the info. Will keep you posted!

Ben

[helosixx]

As requested... Will post more tomorrow when I'm home.

Grady, not sure on my intentions for the car but am leaning toward a hotrod with a look similar to the Singer Porsche. My car doesn't have much originality left so it seems the most logical.
I'm curious, in a hotrod config what is the best engine /trans combo?

[Grady Clay]

Ben,

Welcome home.

Please post lots of pictures. Details!
We can see what you have.
With good information about your ‘starting point’, you can decide on what (of many) paths are available.

I recommend you spend quite a bit of time and effort finding out what you have and then researching the possibilities.
As you go through this process, I suspect your ideas and goal will change – without having spent any $.

Congratulations on your new toy.

Best,
Grady

[helosixx]

Lots of Photos as requested =) Chassis number, engine number, number from the left side of case, numbers on both heads... thanks again Grady!

[helosixx]

Happy Easter everyone =)

[helosixx]

[Grady Clay]

Ben,

Looking good!

There isn’t a perfect way to tell what is in the engine short of disassembling it.

The first order of business it to get it running.
Drain the fuel tank and the engine oil.
With the fuel level sender removed, inspect the inside of the fuel tank for rust & sediment.
Note if the fuel supply screen filter is clean (if not, remove and clean).
Inspect the engine sump screen for any debris. Cut open the oil filter and inspect the filter element.

Install fresh gas (100+ octane race gas) and oil. Replace all filters.
With the sparkplugs out and the ignition disabled, crank the engine for oil pressure.
Check for fuel leaks.
Reconnect the ignition and turn the engine (CW) with a wrench checking spark at the coil wire disconnected from the cap center terminal.
A ‘static’ spark should occur just after the TDC ‘Z1’ mark has past the mark in the fan housing.
At this point you might consider new cap, rotor, plug wires, plug connectors and sparkplugs (use NGK BP7ES - eventually, you probably should use BP8ES).

Get it running and drive around a bit.
See if the carbs adjust for idle mixture (record your changes).
Keep the rpm below 4000 after warm.
Report how it runs.

If running OK, put a few miles on it.
Note how the brakes work. Check for lowering brake fluid every drive.

Remove the sparkplugs and observe the color around the steel base and ground terminal exposed to the combustion.
Measure the cranking compression and cylinder leak.
Report the numbers.


I’m assuming a high level of Porsche mechanical expertise.
If you have the least bit of doubt about the above procedures, search using appropriate keywords and my name.
I have previously explained them in fine detail.
Post any question. I’m willing to explain in the highest detail necessary.


What I’m ‘angling’ for here is for you to have a known running engine that someone can see, hear, drive and have tests & inspection repeated.
There is a great deal of resale value in the engine.
The sale will be much better the more that is known.

At some point, you will need to make an ‘executive decision’ about the engine: keep or sell.
In the final analysis, you may want to disassemble the engine before making that call.
Having a documented running and tested engine that is then disassembled for inspection and measurement removes any mystery for either you or a potential buyer.


What are the numbers (green circle below) on the carbs?





What are the numbers (yellow circle below) on the crankcase?




What are the numbers and dates on all six heads?
Look toward outboard (green arrow below) on the lower-inboard side of the heads.





The transmission appears to be a ‘late’ ’71 version with the rectangular boss (green arrow below).
What are the numbers on that boss?

Is this a paper gasket (yellow arrow below) ‘hanging out’?
The cast ‘ring’ (red arrow) seems to be mostly intact – good. More pictures here, please.
There is a rubber boot missing (teal arrow).





It would be a good idea to drain the transmission and inspect the magnet on the drain plug.
Loosen and remove the fill plug first.
Refill with standard 90W Hypoid transmission oil.

I see lots of things to investigate and discuss.
More pictures please.

Best,
Grady

[djpateman]

This is interesting. It seems to be an early "R" case. The one photo shows one side as 101.0R. I would like a photo of the other side showing the 102.xx


I do not have much info on the case transition, but I do have one that is about 100 later with the 101.02 casting number.

[helosixx]

Grady, I'll take the questions one at a time, hope I get this right. In the photo with the purple circle, thats the engine number It reads STAR 962170 STAR. the yellow circle in the same photo was a pain to get a photo of! It reads, 902/02 <---- "Correction it reads 901/02" and under it 9195.

The carbs read 40 IDA 30 and under that 5 K.

Gonna try to get the other case number for the question posted after your last post in just a minute.

With regard to your last post, your right no way to know whats in the motor unless it's broken down. I do know the engine was reported to be punched out to 2.4. The numbers on the cans will tell us that?

[helosixx]

Originally Posted by djpateman

This is interesting. It seems to be an early "R" case. The one photo shows one side as 101.0R. I would like a photo of the other side showing the 102.xx


I do not have much info on the case transition, but I do have one that is about 100 later with the 101.02 casting number.

DJ, you were correct it had a 102.01 it was hard to get a photo of with out jacking the car. Will get a better photo of it tomorrow in the day light.

Whats the significance of the R?

[djpateman]

Great info. The `R` basically stands for revision. This was something newly introduced during this period. The `R` started to appear on the ends of most of the casting part numbers, preceded by the revision number itself. On the engine cases the revisions were 0R, 1R, 2R, 3R 4R, 5R & 7R, and with each there was a detail change/improvement in the casting. Each side was independent really, so mixed versions were common during transitions, or during whole years. Since this engine was originally a transition period case it would be useful to get a lot more numbers from it. But, that would require some dis-assembly so we will have to wait for that to happen.

[Grady Clay]

Ben,

Just to make sure this is only a typo….
You reported engine type as “902/02”. I suspect you mean 901/02. You can edit your post.

The numbers on the engine all make sense.
The *962170* is correct for a very late ‘67S engine type 901/02.
For those crankcase castings -.101.0R and -.102.1R, fall within Dave’s ‘build number’ range of 5732 to 9272 with yours being 9195.

There is a ‘fine line’ between casting numbers like 901.101.101.0R cast into the part and a part number like 901.101.101.00 which would have been on the packaging and a label on the part, rarely stamped into the part.
There are exceptions where the vendor stamped the part number in the part.
Many (most?) times the casting number and part do not agree.

There are two other ‘numbers’ that will help fill Dave’s database: the casting date and the parting numbers.

What are the numbers on the other carburetor?


Put an original air cleaner assembly on your ‘try-to-find’ list.

More pictures.

Best,
Grady