Stuck with the car. Not starting!

[ybn533]

Hi

Need your help guys.

I'm stuck with my 911sc 82. When I started the car this morning it start hard and didnt work on all cylinder abd after a few second all start working. After an hour of driving I stopped and try to start the engine and the starter is working but the engine won't start.

Any Idea what is it?

Thanks
Yaron

[ybn533]

When the engine was cold after the night it started good. I think the problem is after the engine got hot a bit.

[Oh Haha]

So it turns over but doesn't fire up?


Check the fuel pump relay in the front trunk fuse panel. It should be round and red. Once located, take a black relay from another item and swap them. See if the car runs and report back.

[ybn533]

Hi,
I played with the coil wire and I think the problem is from there. there is a space and a lot of dirt.
After I Played with it the engine fire up.
When the engine will get cold I will clean the connection of the wire to the coil and see.

I have the oem ignition wires. I think it about time to upgrade. Which wires are recommended?

Thanks
Yaron

[ybn533]

Ok. It seems that it's not the wire. the engine fire up after a lot of starter spin and start with a few cylinders and after the other start working

[TibetanT]

Yaron:

First and foremost, I am no expert.

Second, a little more information would be necessary for proper diagnosis of this problem. For example, any records with this vehicle? How long since last tune-up, valves were set, timing done, oil change and general maintenance?

The reason I ask is, you mentioned bad wire to the coil and if that is the case, maybe all the spark plug wires are bad as well. My advise for spark plug wires would be, as a purest, use the OEM steel braided wires sold right here on Pelican.

Now, with that said, your symptoms sound familiar to me. My 911SC had a problem with hot starts and it turned out to be the Fuel Accumulator. My Fuel Accumulator was the original from the factory (approx. 25 years old), so it did need to be changed.

Rather than throwing money at the problem buying parts right now, a good diagnosis of all Fuel Injection components would be helpful. If bad gas, Ethanol with water in it due to the car sitting for a long period, this could be an issue for CIS system.

Many things need checking here:
Do you have spark to all cylinders?
Do you have fuel reaching all injectors?
Is the battery fully charged?
How is the compression on all cylinders?
What is the fuel pressure?
Are all fuel injector plugs getting 12V?

Hope this small checklist helps.

There are some expert CIS troubleshooting techniques within this forum. Try using the search function to find it, since those could benefit your investigation and analysis of this problem.

Search terms: CIS troubleshooting or CIS no-start condition

[TibetanT]

Here is one very good discussion with regard to CIS troubleshooting:

Cold Control Pressure on WUR - hard stop? CIS Experts!

Keep us posted on your progress, so all can learn from this experience.
Good luck.

[ybn533]

Thanks TibetanT

the car is in perfect condition. only 66,000 miles.

Tommorow I'll take it to my mechanic and we'll see what we will find...

[ybn533]

Hi,

I visited the mechanic today and I want to set the proper diagnosis of this problem:

1. when the car is cold it fire up very good.
2. when I stop with the car and try to fire up until 5 min' from the stop- the engine fire up.
3. If I let the car stand more then 15 min' it won't fire up.
4. when the car doesn't fire up and I take the air cleaner out and press the throttle valve (butterfly) on time with the switch open and it throw fuel inside - the engine fire up.

The Mechaninc told me that maybe I need to change the needles but I don't think that this is the problem.

Importent thing to know is that I bought the car from CA and the car is very well kept. Talked with the seller who own the car for 20 years and this never happened to him.
I only have the car for two weeks.

Any Idea what can be the problem?
I live in Israel which is a great country but has XXXXty mechanics for Porsches.

Thanks and please rescue me
Yaron

[theFONZ]

Sounds exactly like the fuel accumulator. It's pretty easy to change.

I'd also invest in some 911 books along with it, because it sounds like your mechanic doesn't know much about 911s.

[ybn533]

Hi,

Thanks to theFONZ

Do You think this could happened becuase of the fuel change? Israel use different fuel. its 95 but not the same. any more ideas or could I get a new fuel accumulator?

Thanks guys

Yaron

[boyt911sc]

Yaron,

Check the residual fuel pressure. A low residual fuel pressure could be caused by either any of the following: a defective fuel accumulator, FP check valve, or FD return valve. Test and confirm.

Tony

[Porchcar guy]

My 79SC would start cold, would start after 5 minutes but would not start off the key after 15 minutes. I could roll it down a hill and pop the clutch and she would fire up but dieseled until all 6 cylinders were firing. We rebuilt the WUR and the Fuel distributer as the CIS system would not hold residual pressure. This solved the problem and she starts first kick every time. Also replaced the fuel pump, fuel filter, accumulator, injectors, and some other things but only as they were original on the car after sitting for a while and very few miles in the past 10 years.

[ybn533]

Hi,

Can you help me with a check up procedure. I'm not familiar with the 911s. only have the car for two weeks. I don't want to buy parts and spend money on the way of finding the problem.
I thought about buying a fuel accumulator and a fuel filter for a start. But now after 'porchcar guy' had the same problem it seems that this not the right move. so?

[porwolf]

I would not rush anything. I read some where here tha removing one fuel injector, and letting it spray into a jelly jar is a good indicator of good fuel delivery when the car does not want to start. I would then check on the fuel pressure with an appropriate meter setup that can be bought for about $100.-. Of course, first, I would be making sure that the fuel pump runs fine when it should. There are many posts here about similar situations. It helps to search.

[ybn533]

I found this post on a search I did. This is the way to check the FA? if it's doesn't leak it means it's working good?

"The accumulator has a diaphram inside to hold and stabilize fuel pressure. If the diaphram leaks it will cause a hard warm start. On its small end (opposite of the end with inlet and outlets lines) there will either be a hex plug or a single fuel line to return leaking fuel to the tank. If you remove the plug/return line and there is fuel present, the diaphram is leaking and the accumulator needs replaced."

Thanks,
Yaron

[LWJ]

There is some good advice above.

1) Accumulator
2) Check valve

I have no idea what your mechanic means by "needles."

As the car was shipped over from California. There are a couple things that could happen.

1) There could be some dirt that got loose from vibration in shipping or bad fuel or perhaps Israel has GOOD gas and this isn't happy with the bad California gas? Unknown but possible.

2) Also, the shipping could have shaken an electrical connection loose.

As the very happy owner of a 1980 SC that I drive every day, you need information!

This forum is excellent. Also, buy a bentley manual and try to figure this out yourself. Even if just to arm yourself against an ignorant mechanic who is well meaning but not experienced with a Porsche.

Good luck! There are always bugs on new / used cars. It takes a bit to sort them all out.

Larry

[ybn533]

ok.

I learned how to check the Fuel Accumulator but can you tell me how I can check the FP Check valve and the FD return valve?

I have the basic tools but I don't have air pressure gauge.

it seems like I'm getting there

Thanks Guys.

Yaron

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by ybn533

ok.

I learned how to check the Fuel Accumulator but can you tell me how I can check the FP Check valve and the FD return valve?

I have the basic tools but I don't have air pressure gauge.

it seems like I'm getting there

Thanks Guys.

Yaron

Yaron,

A pressure gauge kit is mandatory for fuel injection troubleshooting. Without one, you'll be doing a lot of guess-work. Since you need to check your residual pressure, FP check valve, and the FD relief valve, you can not do the investigation effectively. Unless you want to swap parts and hope you get lucky. But that's an expensive way to do troubleshooting.

However, you could inspect the FA by removing it from the car and pour some fuel into it. A good FA will not leak at the bottom port. Or you could blow air by mouth and listen to the sound coming from the drain or bottom port.

Tony

[ybn533]

Hi,
This weekend I'm gonna try testing the FA on the car. if it won't work I'll pull it out for a test.

I have a thought in mind. If the car was perfect before I got it (I really believe the seller, a real honest man) and in the first week I got it, there was no problems at all. Can it be that the problem is from a dirt in the fuel or fuel rate changes between USA and Israel? can it harm the fuel pressure in the system?
should I try fill her up with a premium fuel and EFI clean add on? do you think this can help?
or it's a waste of time?

seems weird but I'm trying to understand how it can happens suddenly?!

Just thinking out loud