997 - electrical nightmare 25 years from now?

[KNS]

Seeing all these threads on 3.2 Carreras with no start and stalling issues related to sensors, DMEs, etc, what can we expect from a car with ten times the wiring and solders?

Yes, you can plug the car in and read the OBD but will that tell you everything you need to chase down an intermittent fault? Have you seen the wiring loom on a modern car..?!

I'd like to purchase one some day but long-term keeper?

[Quicksilver]

The only advantage I can think of is the newer cars are made in much higher numbers so there will be a larger used parts market.
I pretty much look at the plastic cars that are all they make now days, and know they are a problem that will just get worse.
- I had a car with plastic that was designed to be biodegradable. The wiring harness was full of bare wires and colored plastic powder after breaking down from turbo heat.
- Wife's current car has had a list of plastic items break from hardened plastic after 10 years: multiple switches, door panels, dashboard, etc...

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As too the "all these threads" about the 3.2 Carreras...
The biggest problem is that because everything is electronic people can't see faulty signals and instead of finding out how to test the systems they just start replacing parts. Once they start down that road they are only going to hit the issue with $$$ and dumb luck.
They made LOTS of 80s Carreras so having a number of threads where people are replacing everything they can think of isn't that bad statistically. The number of them with huge mileage is even more impressive.

The one thing you can't directly test is the DME and that can be an issue but if you have someone nearby with a Carrera it is easy to throw the questionable box in a known good car. Other then that the systems can be tested by picking up a pretty short list of equipment:
- A good multimeter
- A fuel pressure gauge
- An used oscilloscope

[Chuck.H]

This is something I've been struggling with for a while; 'What is going to become of these modern cars 25 years from now?' My GF's new BMW has so many electronic gadgets on it, I couldn't imagine the cost to maintain it once it's 10 years old.

OBD-II does help a little, but more and more software diagnostics are being put into the propriatary connectors rather than the OBD-II. I had to remvove the steering wheel on my older Mercedes (yaw sensor loosened), and to access a screw I turned on the ignition with the air bag removed - d'oh! it set the air bag light and only the Mercedes scan tool which connects under the hood would reset it. OBD-II scanner didn't see it or reset it.

BTW, I agree with Wayne there seems to be a lot of needless parts being replaced on the Carrera's, ~but~ part swapping can be part of a sensible diagnosis program. As with all debugging, work methodically, continually study the symptoms, look carefully at what each change does, and if it doesn't fix the problem, undo the change.

I keep spares of many of the engine parts on my 911, and when a problem shows up I might swap out a suspect part for a few hundred miles, but if there is no change to the original problem I swap it back. This way I also know my spare parts work.

My list of spares includes: DME, DME relay, fuel pump, MAF, coil, and IAC. I don't keep spares of the HT sensor because it's easy to test and easy to bypass with a resistor.

Chuck.H
'89 TurboLookTarga, 335k miles

[tazzieman]

Modern cars will end up like 7 & 8 series BMWs and Mercs of the early 90s. Too costly to repair.
No doubt many of the mass produced Porsches of today will suffer the same fate after the 2nd , 3rd and 4th owners skimp on maintenance. But survival will probably exceed other marques because inherently they are tough.

I think the SC has just about proved its bulletproof status! I keep a spare FP relay but that's about it. That , some duct tape and wire/crimp terminals and a fire extinguisher to put out fires in other classic marques!

[sc_rufctr]

Most would have been recycled because the parts to repair them will not be available.
Recently the 928 has suffered a similar fate. It's getting really hard to find a good one that's working as it should be.

There are after market options and you may be able to replace most functions with electronic control boxes but you'd be chasing your tail.

Even the 959 to a certain extent has suffered this fate. There are lots still around but aren't working as they should be or have been modified with after market fuel injection to keep them on the road.
Capena specialises in this with his EFI conversions to get them California compliant.

[Tippy]

You can capitalize off this; buy up all the diagnostic equipment for Germans cars and hold on to them for 25 years. Probably be a strong demand for the shadetree mechanic to buy these units as you predict and agree with.

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally Posted by Tippy

You can capitalize off this; buy up all the diagnostic equipment for Germans cars and hold on to them for 25 years. Probably be a strong demand for the shadetree mechanic to buy these units as you predict and agree with.

That doesn't work since the majority of them require software subscriptions to function and if that lapses, the scan tools become doorstops.

I sure wouldn't wish to be the one troubleshooting and repairing cars made in the last 10 years due to how these things are designed & constructed. Scan tools only go so far when digital CAN busses and fiber-option connections become intermittent over years of use.

While the air-cooled models are now considered old, they are still imminently repairable (aside from NLA parts) and much easier to keep on the road.

[DW SD]

I used to work in a shop in college. These were some early computer controlled cars. Sometimes when we'd narrow a problem two one of a few potentially failed components that would cause a given symptom, a call to the dealer would confirm which direction to take the repair.

Uncommonly failed parts would only have a few on hand in dealer stock. These were mostly Japanese vehicles sold in high volumes. Parts which often failed would have dozens on hand. The difference was pronounced, commonly an order of magnitude or more. 95% of the time, this method of determining which part failed worked. It saved significant diagnostic time.

[john walker's workshop]

they will go the way of your other worn out appliances. cheaper to buy a new printer than a new set of ink cartridges.

[Tippy]

That doesn't work since the majority of them require software subscriptions to function and if that lapses, the scan tools become doorstops.

Ok, scratch that idea.

[911dean]

While the air-cooled models are now considered old, they are still imminently repairable (aside from NLA parts) and much easier to keep on the road.

One of the many reasons I love my 84' Carrera.
Dean