Corner balance before alignment?

[Roby466]

Hi guys,
So I just completed my full ER suspension upgrade (PB bushings all around, monoball joints all around, 23mm front and 31mm rear TBs, raised spindles 30mm and racing bump steer kit installed) and I am planning on attending DE on 7 Sep at Pacific Raceways... I can't wait to see how much of a difference this will do!
Now, the question about alignment VS corner balance. Which one do you do first? I don't have the luxury to use one shop for both so I have to go to 2 different places. The corner balance guy wants to do it last so does the alignment guy. Which one should I do first?
Thanks for any help
David

[wildcat077]

You definitely need to corner balance first as the shop will need to lower/raise some of the four corners to corner balance the car ...
Any lowering/raising will affect toe and camber so you will need the alignment to set everything afterwards !

Are you going to use "R" compounds or street tires ?

Cheers !
Phil

[Slider79SC]

Exactly what Phil said, always corner balance first. And running "R" compound tires will change a lot of things with the alignment. There is usually camber built into the tires already that needs to be accounted for with your settings.

[Grady Clay]

David,

You will probably need to go back-&-forth between the two (several times).
This way both can ‘creep-up’ on a final setting.
Driving in between is actually ‘a-good-thing’ as it will settle the suspension so the final will be solid.
You should check both (alignment & corner balance) after your DE.

Do you know your intended settings?
Does the 930 have the same tires and wheels you will use on track?
Use the same (calibrated) tire pressure gauge for the alignment, balance and track.
Have ballast to match your weight. Set your fuel level.

Looks like fun.

Best,
Grady

[brads911sc]

What Grady said. When I had mine done they went between CB and Alignment 3-4 times.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by Roby466

....... Which one do you do first? I don't have the luxury to use one shop for both so I have to go to 2 different places. ......
David

It really needs to be done together. Camber & rideheight adjustments will change balance, and visa-versa.

Find a capable alignment shop.

[Grady Clay]

Idea-

Talk your Porsche knowledgeable alignment guy into buying a set of scales.
Help him with the purchase if necessary.

EDIT
… or DIY. All you need are a good set of scales (say ~US$2500), some monofilament (US$1) and a camber gauge (~US$100).
You probably already have the few tools necessary.

Best,
Grady

[Roby466]

Thanks guys, that's not ideal to go back and forth... I live on Vancouver Island in BC and there is 1 Porsche shop only (other than dealer) and he has the scales, but no alignment equipment. There are no shop with both that I know of...
Right now, I have street high perf tires but not for long and then, I am going to either nitto nt01 or toyo r888.
I don't drive the car in bad weather enough to warrant anything else than r tires.
I will keep searching for a shop that can do both, it would be ideal.
I have some specs for alignment, but nothing absolute yet, I'm welcoming suggestions!! I don't really care about tire wear on the road either...
David

[wildcat077]

David,

My car was happy with -1.5 and -2.0 front and rear camber when i was using Dunlop Star Specs on the track,now i'm using "R" compounds as my car sees more track miles than street miles and with -2.8 front and -2.7 rear camber it's barely adequate for decent tire wear,-3.0 would be ideal.I started the season at -2.4 front and had to install decambered ball joints in addition to my camber plates to get more camber as the outer edges were wearing too fast ...

Go for the Nittos,they're a great value for the dollar and have given me over 40 heat cycles so far and apart from flipping the front tires inside out to even the wear i'm hoping to see another 12 cycles out of the set this season before i swap them for new ones !

Cheers !
Phil

[morrisjm1]

Put it on a trailer and stop at Truline in Seattle on the way down to Pacific Raceways and have them do both at the same time. They did mine, perfect job, as near as I can tell. If it isn't right after your track day, stop on the way back and have them fix it. Of course, it will add a few days to you journey.

Mike

[JohnJL]

I've found I need to go back and forth to get them right.

You might check with your local Porsche club and see if they have a set to loan out to members. If not, maybe offer to split the cost with them for them to loan out when you are done. I paidd about $1000 from summit for a set. That would set you back $500, about the cost of just 1-2 weighing sessions.

[Roby466]

Thanks, I have found a place to do both at the same time... Weissach in Vancouver but the only problem I have to take a ferry there and back which brings the cost much higher and makes it much more attractive to go the buying the scales route... I will have to talk to my alignment shop and see what they think...

[tobluforu]

I would align it first, then drive the piss out of it to settle everything in, get use to it, adjust sway bars, etc. Then corner and align once again after your first DE. You can have plenty of fun without spending ooodles of cash right off the bat, and if you are a great driver then that is most of the battle.

[Grady Clay]

That brings up another issue not mentioned:
You must have at least one adjustable link on each sway bar.
With non-adjustable links, reinstalling the sway bars will ‘load’ the suspension one way or the other.
With all-new Factory parts it was ‘close enough’ but that isn’t now.

Best,
Grady

[michael lang]

I'm not sold on this idea of having the alignment done, and then recheck and corner balance. I've driven a car unbeknownst to me being out of balance and it really makes the car do some really goofy things. My suggestion would be to spend the money on the ferry and have them do both at the same time. The last thing this guy needs at his first DE is to go into a hard braking turn and one of the wheels locks up because the corner balance is way off. He may never want to go back.

[tobluforu]

I'm not sure what DE this guy is doing, but I drove my old 72 in many, attended a boat load of auto-x's and I was very completive for 10 years, or before I ever put the car on scales. But if you have the cash, then go for it. Not putting your car on scales is not going to ruin your car driving experience.

[wildcat077]

My car was corner balanced four years ago by the PO when i purchased it but i keep upgrading/changing so many suspension parts that the corner balance is long gone ... and i still enjoy it immensely on the track without any odd handling issues.

I guess once you learn to modulate your braking it doesn't really matter all that much although a set of Intercomp scales is on my X-Mas wish list to myself

David,learn your car as is and when you are finished upgrading your suspension with more camber goodies and bigger wheels/tires,track wheels with "R" compounds then it will be time for a good corner balance.You will appreciate it more !

Cheers !
Phil

[JP911]

Originally Posted by JohnJL

You might check with your local Porsche club and see if they have a set to loan out to members. If not, maybe offer to split the cost with them for them to loan out when you are done. I paidd about $1000 from summit for a set. That would set you back $500, about the cost of just 1-2 weighing sessions.

+1

Learning to do proper suspension setup work is very satisfying and makes you realize that the shops you were paying were probably putting in a 70% effort into the job at best. Myself and several local 911 pals have gotten pretty good at it, and have found that even on a good day a complete setup with all the right tools at the ready (corner balance, camber, and toe) takes 4-5 hours; the first few times it was an all-day affair.

[Roby466]

Thanks guys for all the help here. This is not my first DE, I was signed off solo driving last year with PNWR PCA but it is my first for this summer (I was deployed at sea all summer).
I did a tripod corner balance myself already to make sure I was starting from something a bit better than just by eye so I made sure that my sway bar was not loaded in the back lifting the front. Then, I did the front making sure that the rear would stay unloaded so hopefully I got it not too bad. I don't have adjustable sway bars yet but rear adjustable links look like something I should get pretty soon. I am tempted now to just get the alignment, drive it, go to the DE next week and buy all the stuff to do my own alignments and corner balance over the winter. The car will be put away again at the end of September as I am going back to sea so it will be the perfect time for buying all the equipment.
I will most likely be looking at the Smart String setup I guess as it looks easy to use. Do you guys find that the string alignments work?
Thanks again and I am looking forward to trying the car on the track soon! This should by my last DE with street tires and then, they will be done and R compound it will be.
David

[JP911]

Originally Posted by Roby466

I will most likely be looking at the Smart String setup I guess as it looks easy to use. Do you guys find that the string alignments work?

String is a tried and true method. The benefit of the Smart Strings is that they are attached to/move with the car (it's good to move the car around after it's been in the air being adjusted to get it to settle). Personally, I've used Smart Strings and like them, but wound up creating my own version that uses lasers instead of string.