Brake caliper dust seals on track

[dede911]

Hi,

After 4 trackday, each 2 hours driving, the dust seals on my 3.2 front calipers are (again) cracked.

I run DS3000 pads, standard 3.2 discs and motul brake oil.

I don't mind to rebuild the calipers every winter, but 4 trackday's is very short.

What is your experience?

The DS 3000 pads don't contain ceramic. I heard that ceramic (like in Pagid pads) is good heat barrier...Does this makes a difference in real live?

A guy in Germany sells 26mm spacers for the calipers and 26mm rotors, but NOT cheap...

I would love 964 calipers on 28mm rotors, but the use of adapters would make it impossible to pass yearly techical inspection.
Custom made hats could be a solution....

André

[michael lang]

I'd say get used to it. I hate to tell you this but that is going to happen, those boots are thin pieces of rubber, they are going to tear. I've used Pagid and also PFC (not for that reason) and every off season I am replacing the seals and o-rings in my car's calipers.

[ivangene]

just discovered this little "dirty secret" myself - mine are crispy / brittle and cracked

curious about why you think adapting would fail inspection?
I am installing 964 calipers this weekend - going to take it in steps because of timing and money - starting with the axial mounts and stock rotors, then moving to bigger rotaors and radial mounting adapters.

I have NO FEAR I will pass inspection

[piggdekk]

Ivangene, maybe you have no fear because You don't live in Belgium.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by dede911

Hi,

After 4 trackday, each 2 hours driving, the dust seals on my 3.2 front calipers are (again) cracked.

I run DS3000 pads, standard 3.2 discs and motul brake oil.

I don't mind to rebuild the calipers every winter, but 4 trackday's is very short.

What is your experience?

The DS 3000 pads don't contain ceramic. I heard that ceramic (like in Pagid pads) is good heat barrier...Does this makes a difference in real live?

A guy in Germany sells 26mm spacers for the calipers and 26mm rotors, but NOT cheap...

I would love 964 calipers on 28mm rotors, but the use of adapters would make it impossible to pass yearly techical inspection.
Custom made hats could be a solution....

André

The seals deteriorate because of heat, the solution is better cooling or bigger rotors which run cooler

[JeremyD]

The bigger rotors are what you need for heat management, then appropriately sized calipers. Many have found the 993 calipers - custom front (rennsport or willwood) with custom hat - then rear 930 rotor and either 965 caliper or 993 calipers with the throats opened up.

My experience with the 3.2 brakes is that if you at a track with big brake demands - you can almost do the rebuilding process on a weekly basis -

First try cooling (like the under a-arm brake scoops) While going aggressive with brake fluid and pads.

[ivangene]

yup - common story lines - more brakes for track

the cooling is good, the better pads, then the bigger rotors, then the bigger brakes and start the cooling all over again - this is some sort of a money/time suck!!

LOL

the guys here have done the homework - just get on the bus and go !
Belgium has some sort of inspection for street or track?

and they would know if the calipers were bolted on in a different manner? - that's pretty thorough inspection!

[914efi]

Most of the 'racing' calipers don't have these seals. Maybe because they are expensive to add to the design, maybe because they don't get the road crap exposure, but maybe also because they don't last in hard use. You could leave them off.

[JP911]

Originally Posted by 914efi

Most of the 'racing' calipers don't have these seals. Maybe because they are expensive to add to the design, maybe because they don't get the road crap exposure, but maybe also because they don't last in hard use. You could leave them off.

The 930 calipers have a metal scraper ring that that fits into the bore after the seal. Definitely a more track-oriented approach. Makes rebuilding a bit more challenging.

The 2 piston calipers use the dust seal instead, after that it's just the seal in the piston bore. Not sure if it's wise to lose that seal. Maybe it's OK if you're going to be rebuilding once a year.

[michael lang]

Totally agree with the addition of cooling. I decided to go that route and it really was worth it to help my brakes last longer. Now I'm at the point where I could be ready for bigger brakes but will work on my driving some more. However, I know regardless of what I step up to the dust seals will still split. That is inevitable.

[dede911]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies so for.

I forgot to mention that I have scoops under the A-arms for cooling.This is for sure an improvement and slows down the wear rate on discs.

To rebuild the caliper once a year is OK (is even normal after track use)

Regarding conversions: My car is a road/track car. This means that every year we have to go to a technical inspection. It is true that these guys don't are aware of all details on cars, but it is always a risk that they make a complaint and declare your car 'not road legal'.

DS3000 is a rather older technology.

Could more modern pads like pagid yellow extend life of caliper seals (help to run cooler?)
Theoretical the ceramic content of the pad could be a heat barrier...

The German Porsche specialist I made reference to can install bigger spacers between the standard calipers, and can deliver 26mm discs.
This is certain a good direction, but he discs are >450€... I also don't like single source...If he quits ...no discs.
Does anyone has a source for hats to install 26 or 28mm discs?

With 28mm rotors,964 calipers come in the picture...

André

[Bill Verburg]

Track pads tend to raise the rotor temps, I like Pagid yellow but their use will not alleviate high rotor temps

[JeremyD]

My experience with Carrera Brakes
(just stumbled across this picture)


993 Calipers on Wilwood rotors - custom hats (look like stock)


Rear 993 Calipers on 930 Turbo rotors

[ivangene]

LOL I have a set of Carrera pads that look EXACTLY like those!!