Valve adjustment gone wrong...help!

[woywitka]

Background:

Original 3.0L 1978 factory installed engine. Never been apart. Had regular valve adjustments and oil changed throughout life. All documented.

What happened:

Well it all came apart fine. No head-studs or nuts broken off rolling around in the valve covers, so that was good. Cam lobes all look fantastic.

so...

Nearly all my valves seemed too tight.

I put the engine at TDC and checked #1. I felt like I had the pull on the tappet when adjusting and they sort of "clicked" back a bit (normal?). I would undo the 13mm and then turn the screw back and adjust it down on the feeler gauge just enough so I could slip the gauge out easily. After the first valve it all seemed so easy and simple. I rotated the engine 120 degrees just as it said, having to adjust all but 2 valves for more clearance.

I was so pleased with how things went. Upgraded to silicons valve cover gaskets. New dist. cap and rotor yadda yadda yadda. Until... I started it.

I was surprised I now have a much more noisy engine that feels like its down on power. At first it seemed ok but then a rythmic ticking noise would come on at 2,000RPMS and as the engine heated up it got worse. Then I took it for a drive, red line just didn't pull like before. Now it ticks all the time like starting a hydraulic
lifter car after it has been sitting a long time.

What's the likelyhood of serious damage?

I'm really feeling like I never should have done the adjustment in first place. I had a very quiet and powerful drive-train before and I only did it because I put 10,000km on the car since I bought it and figured better to adjust then not adjust.

Rant:

BTW the valve adjustment tool sold on here with the screwdriver built in sucks big time, its unusable on the intake valves, there is no space. I ended up using a 13mm and a screwdriver which was much easier. Complete waste of $50. Maybe if the engine was out of the car and I had little experience using standard tools or something. I don't know, who the heck designed that?

Feeler gauge feeder tool is also a waste, wish I got the proper original tool and swap blades. I hated that I had to bend the gauge feed to fit the recess.

Should have been a $10 tab with better tools and not $80 with crap. grrr.

[theFONZ]

I use the feeder tool and love it. You have to get used to bending the feeler gauge though.

Don't get so down, the first time I did a valve adjustment I thought everything went perfect. Then I went back to recheck and every valve was off. Did you make sure you were at TDC on the distributor as well as the pulley?

[woywitka]

Originally Posted by theFONZ

I use the feeder tool and love it. You have to get used to bending the feeler gauge though.

Don't get so down, the first time I did a valve adjustment I thought everything went perfect. Then I went back to recheck and every valve was off. Did you make sure you were at TDC on the distributor as well as the pulley?

You are right, it is the first time. Thanks!

Ya I had the rotor pointing to the mark and everything. I crossed checked 101 Projects against Bentley. Had my 120 and everything all good.

[Peter Bull]

The feeler gauge should almost stick between the tappet and the valve. Sliding the gauge between the tappet and valve should require a certain amount of effort. If the gauge slips out easily the play is too large.

/Peter

[jason2guy]

u have to adjust them tight. i think most people adjust them too loose on their first go. its just the way it goes.
if ur gonna use the feeler gauge, itll feel tight when its right.
trust me ur not going to overtighten the valve adjustment w/the feeler in there, so make it tight and ull be happy

[rwest]

No matter how you turn the motor to get to the adjustment point, always visually check where the rocker is on the cam lobe. I didn't have much luck with doing the 120 turns. I just draw a crude diagram of all the valves and check them off as I adjust each one- takes longer, don't care, I'm not paying myself and it makes me feel better.

Best,
Rutager

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by jason2guy

u have to adjust them tight. i think most people adjust them too loose on their first go. its just the way it goes.
if ur gonna use the feeler gauge, itll feel tight when its right.
trust me ur not going to overtighten the valve adjustment w/the feeler in there, so make it tight and ull be happy

+1 ...with the feeler in place, I hold the adjustment screw in position with one hand, and tighten the nut with the other. I'm an amateur, and will never have the experience and "feel" that pros do, so I don't even worry about slipping the guage back in after I tighten the nut and pull the guage out. I also note the orientation of the adjustment screw both before/after as most don't need adjusting (or very minor) on a well maintained car. For me, it's more of a valve clearance "check" as my car runs fantastic. Hope this helps...

ps: If I can't get the feeler in place initially, I loosen the screw a bit, slide the feeler in, and then return the screw to it's previous orientation.

[Don Ivey]

ps: If I can't get the feeler in place initially, I loosen the screw a bit, slide the feeler in, and then return the screw to it's previous orientation.

This! Makes it a breeze to do. Just check after yourself to make sure you can turn the pushrod with your fingers, and wiggle it a bit. Make sure they all have the same turn and wiggle movement. Good luck

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by Don Ivey

ps: If I can't get the feeler in place initially, I loosen the screw a bit, slide the feeler in, and then return the screw to it's previous orientation.

+10

This is the key to an effective and efficient valve adjustment for me at least. Plus it saves on feeler gauge replacement. Took me 15 years to figure this out on my own.

Agree with OP those tools are not for in-the-car adjustment. I used a dial indicator for years thinking that was the best way. It is extremely slow and not as reliable as the feeler gauge.

You did something wrong in your adjustment process. On the bright side nothing is broken and the next time through you will be faster and smarter.

Peter Bull says the gauge should almost stick. I would describe it a little differently. You want a drag on the gauge but not a sense of it being squeezed between the parts.

[Canada Kev]

Well, at least with the silicone gaskets, you can redo it without having to replace gaskets. Just jack up one side of the car and you won't even have to drain the oil. Use jack stands, of course. I had to do this after my last valve adjustment because I was getting some noise from a head on one side of the engine.

+ some more on the if the feeler is in place but can still get it out it's not too tight policy. I tighten it until the gauge won't move and then back just a smidge.

I've also found that on come cyliinders (#6 and #3 intake and #2 exhaust I think) it's kinda difficult to get the feeler in there even with loosening off the screw beforehand, so I started using the backside method on those. That way, you just have to be able to get your hands in to loosen the nut and adjust the screw.

This is really one of those areas where practice helps a bunch. The only thing is, it's not required a whole lot so hard to remember what you did last time. I've started doing an adjustment annually regardless if I have enough miles, though I'm getting almost enough driving in to justify it.

[schumicat]

I had a post a few weeks ago asking about that tool and the consensus was it was unusable on the topside with the engine in place due to lack of clearance. it only works with the engine out of car. so I didn't buy it. it may work on a Beetle with the engine in place (I think that is what it was originally designed for).

[kodioneill]

Originally Posted by jason2guy

u have to adjust them tight. i think most people adjust them too loose on their first go. its just the way it goes.
if ur gonna use the feeler gauge, itll feel tight when its right.
trust me ur not going to overtighten the valve adjustment w/the feeler in there, so make it tight and ull be happy

What the heck. Are you texting or writing?

I use the go-no go method I think it's much easier.

[4sd911]

Originally Posted by kodioneill

What the heck. Are you texting or writing?

I use the go-no go method I think it's much easier.

+1 on the backside method. I use it as a check after adjusting the standard way.
Pelican Technical Article: 911 Valve Adjustment - The Backside Method

[burgermeister]

First adjustment is a bear. Just be patient, drink some beers, and try it again. If you have the cat heat shield my 88 had, find a way to remove it for valve adjustment - it is really in the way.

I recommend starting on the RH exhaust side first - it's the most room & best visibility, and thus it's the best spot to practice. I used to take 4 - 5 hours for the annual valve adjustment - and more like 8 hours for my first one - until I rebuilt the engine. Doing the adjustment out of the car, where I could see and had room, somehow made me "get it". Now I can usually do it in <2 hours.

Even the non-silicone gaskets (as well as nuts & washers, assuming you don't overtighten them) can be reused - I've gotten 3 - 4 valve adjustments out of a set. As long as you can remove them without ripping them, they will seal again.

I welded up a bit of flat stock to a 13mm 12-pont socket with the square 3/8" hole drilled round & bigger. It has more clearance to the valve cover studs than a 13mm wrench, and the hole in the middle enables me to counterhold the adjuster while I tighten the nut. the nuts do not have to be crazy tight - just nice and snug if sufficient. It's really hard to get the adjustment right if you try to torque them as hard as you can, and it's a bear to get them loose for the next adjustment too.

[Canada Kev]

I've never reused any of the cardboard gaskets, and I didn't like the silicone ones. It's funny that it's often difficult to get the gaskets off without damaging them, and then a bit of a PITA to get them back on again, but once they're on and if you let them go for a second, they fall right off.

Good suggestion about starting on the passenger exhaust side. lots more room in there to work and see. The driver's side exhaust is really difficult to get into because of the pre-muff/cat. I don't take mine off so I kinda have to do #1 and #2 by feel. Probably best to get the hang of it on the easier ones to reach first.

[Cobra06]

Originally Posted by schumicat

I had a post a few weeks ago asking about that tool and the consensus was it was unusable on the topside with the engine in place due to lack of clearance. it only works with the engine out of car. so I didn't buy it. it may work on a Beetle with the engine in place (I think that is what it was originally designed for).

That tool works well on the 356, 912 and VW engines, and like you said I do think it was initially a VW tool.

[jason2guy]

yeah same here on the gaskets, i can take them off a few times and they hold up real well.
i usually put new aluminum washers on the bottom row of bolts on the lower covers.

[LakeCleElum]

I think we need a "Valve Adjustment Sticky" Thread.......These issues come up almost weekly on here and have been for years.....I've been adjusting valves on motorcycles for over 45 years. The 911 was never a challenge, but sure understand how it is for those 1st timers....The info is already out there. I no longer have the energy to keep Posting the same info week after week?

WAYNE - We need a "VALVE ADJUST" sticky.....

[jason2guy]

ok people, admit if uve done a valve adjutment on the 911 "by feel"
i have a bunch of times, and it always turns out great- till i burned a valve. kidding
i know its not the right way to do it but it does work great. its not that hard to get a feel for the .004 clearance that is called for and BTW, thats +-.002. thats a good margin for error
my car has 235K and ive had it since 90K and it still runs great.
so fess up people

[Canada Kev]

Never been brave enough to try.