Well put, worded, and excellent advice. This is how I feel as well, but didn't come up with the words first.:D

where is it i will be happy to get another one if you dont want it

Some more changes for the '77 model year:

• Power Brakes
• Adjustable Spring Plates
• Clutch helper (omega) spring
• Non-opening door vent windows (for anti-theft)
• Center dash fresh air vent
• A/C integrated into center dash vent instead of under dash (if equipped)

I'm sure I'm missing some more but that's all I can think of at the moment.

Even though I had no issues with the case on my 2.7, I made it bullet-proof with all the recommended updates 25 years ago when I was making some engine performance modifications - still no problems 25 years later.

But its these same vent windows that saved my a$$ when I came home at 1am with the M&K thrumming and realized as I was opening the garage door that I locked myself out with car running. Neighbors were probably very happy that the windows provided such easy access :) and I was too with just a push of the the roll pin.

Add me to the list of happy 'middie' owners. I've had my 76 Targa for 28 years, and it's been a great car. I bought it from the original owner, who had the wherewithall to remove the thermal reactors and install an 11 blade fan.

It's easier to work on than the newer ones, and simpler, so less 'stuff' to go wrong like power windows, cruise control, etc...

Mine will probably going to need an engine rebuild before too long, and in a way I'm looking forward to that project if and when it comes, but I'm enjoying it as much now as i did back in 1984!

Quick shot... car is DEFINITELY at 10-15 footer, paint is ROUGH, and there's a lot of issues with the car. Good news is there's only one spec o' rust near a windshield wiper, and the car runs/drives fine. Bad news is the entire engine is wet/leaking oil, even from what appears to be the cylinder/block mating areas (ugh). Targa top needs to be restored, but works, sorta. All the weatherstripping is shot. Paint is coming off on the decklid, and burned through on the upper edge of both doors and fenders. Honestly the car needs a full paintjob, or just keep it as is to be in slightly crusty "driver" status. I'll take more photos this week.

I haven't purchased the car yet, but it is in my garage on an evaluative loan. I wanted to see what all was wrong with it before offering a price. :)

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...99164739_n.jpg

sounds like the perfect candidate to develop your car painting skills!!

How's the interior?

Buy it, take your time with the repairs and in a few years you'll have a sweet machine!

Targa top refurbished correctly by a pro = $1000 DIY $300
Paint job by a pro =$5000 and up DIY $300 +
drop and complete engine re-seal with tools DIY$400+. Pro $3000+.
weatherstripping $1000 for entire car plus installation.
Total DIY to start... $2000
total pro to start... $10K

Your car looks and sounds to be in about the same condition my '78 was when I bought it for $6600.
Offer him $6k and go down from there! :)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/621680-finally-back-game.html

Yeah, I like the car a lot. I'm going to swing by Accumoto and have them sniff it out. So far here are my impressions:

Paint: 4/10. It has paint, but it's pretty terrible. Lots of dings and scuffs and the paint is flaking off and it isn't flat at all. Whatever.
Body: 8/10Straight. Ding in hood from something in cargo area. Dings all over doors. Rust near windshield wiper. Rear big foam bumpers cracking.
Weatherstripping: 1/10 Garbage.
Glass: 10/10 (yay)
Interior: 6/10. Seats are good. Lots of little things are broken or need to be replaced
Targa: 4/10 It's complete but pretty shot.
Brakes: 7/10 Work great, but rear wheels lock up under hard braking. I'm assuming that isn't normal. Didn't check condition of rotors yet.
Tires/wheels : 7/10. Need to be cleaned up but decent
Suspension: 6/10 Decent, but I can tell all the bushings are pretty shot.
Engine: 6/10 It runs decent. Remember it's a 2.9 liter, with about 50k on it. Bit of white smoke at startup. Idles smoothly. Pulls nicely. Leaks everywhere. Exhaust is pretty ratty, lots of welds to patch up holes. As far as I can tell, the heat doesn't work.

What do you guys think it's worth? It has 119,111 miles, the oil was last changed in 1992, with 119,000 miles. Hence, it's been sitting a long, long time.

My two cents:

In pure economic terms -- I think if you buy it at ~6k and bring it back doing all the work yourself, you have a good chance of the car being worth what you paid + the cost of parts and materials.

In car idiot terms -- it sounds like a really fun medium-term project. A winter's worth of nights and weekends will result in a good driver, especially if you can live with the paint for awhile.

So, if you have the $ and time to bring it back, it sounds like a pretty good get.

Regarding the white smoke -- optimistically, that could be the rings needing to be reseated due to the long sleep. If that's the root cause then spirited driving with fresh oil should clean it up. However at that mileage, you may not be far from a top end rebuild. Have the shop do a leakdown and check for broken head studs (or check it yourself).

FYI -- I passed on an 82 coupe in similar condition only because I didn't have the time to bring it back, but my 25-year-old self would have jumped on it in about 10 seconds.

For what it is worth, I bought my 76, in somewhat worse body condition than you describe, for $3500. I haven't fixed all the things that need fixing, only those that would make it drivable. For example, I fixed the rear brakes, which were also sticking due to a stuck piston. Tightened the steering, fixed major oil leaks but not all of them. It depends what you want. If you want a really nice looking car, find a 911SC that someone spent a lot of money on but can't sell for more than the going price of $12 K. You will be money ahead. On the other hand, if you like Porsche cars and enjoy driving them, get this one. You will have a lot of fun and you will learn more than you ever thought possible about mechanics. Timmy2 gave you a realistic appraisal of repair costs. I figured my 76 was worth around 6K in good shape, based on several estimates from Rennlist and watching ebay pricing, and discounted the price based on what the cost of an adequate paint job would be, namely about 2.5K. Don't be discouraged by the oil leaks. As one notable poster on this forum joked, "if it's not leaking oil, you're out!" Get a power washer or a steam cleaner and keep it handy.

There are Targa people and then there are those who are not. I love mine - every thing about it.
2.7's are fine if treated with the respect due any 30+ year old engine.
-C

I think too many people look at their 911's as an investment. I didn't have enough money to spend on a real nice $ 20,000 car. If I didn't have to put 2 kids through College I'd have enough to buy a 917. Instead I bought a decent $7,000 driver and I'm slowly fixing her up. I'm able to drive the car while I do the work and have a blast doing so. I don't think I'd get my $$$ back if I decided to sell it but I don't plan on selling the car. As I've said before, invest in municipal bonds if you're concerned about getting a decent return on your investment. I'm not saying you should buy a Piece of S*#t rust bucket and invest tens of thousands to get her on the road, just do your homework and have fun!http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1349887344.jpg

I have been reading the last page of this thread (Page 3) and there is a A LOT of positive, realistic advice here. All of these posts are really great and if pieced together offer a very realistic, fun outlook on ownership. This is the kind of thread that gets me excited about the choice I made to go with a '75 Targa. And I don't think it would be a bad purchase at $7k either.

PS. Sweet photo Cash68.

I'm sorta in the same boat. Picked up an 81 Targa with turbo body about 4 months ago for 7K. It has a bunch of miles and the interior was thrashed. I knew it was going to be a project, but I've been having a lot of fun doing a little here and a little there. I'm sure when I eventally sell it I'll get most of my money back since I have been handling all the labor. Seemed like a better idea than spending 20K on a driver and learning nothing about the car. Plus, like somebody else mentioned, I have kids :D

So... I swung by Accumoto today, as I met one of their techs recently. They're a porsche/vw/audi tuning shop, that specializes in air-cooled 911s. Pretty impressive facility, some fantastic machinery, and what a great staff. Definitely have to give Chaz a shout out for being such a nice guy, Mark (owner) for showing me around the shop, some of the projects they have going on, and Doug, their 911 guru. We went over the car.. and some not so good news.

Good news is they think the chassis is great, almost no rust, and it's straight. Interior is decent, with a nice dash pad.

Bad news is everything is pretty worn. They confirmed what I was afraid of: The engine needs to come out, come ALL the way apart, and new seals everywhere. On top of that, the pushrod covers were 2 piece aftermarket items, and were gubered up pretty well with RTV, as were a lot of other places on the engine. It's like people used RTV instead of seals, which makes me question the work done internally. Is it even a 2.9 liter? Or is it just a 2.7? I was low on oil, so I added some, which turned out to be a bad move, as it leaked like a freakin sieve out of the oil level sensor.

The heat exchangers are totally shot as well. They're smashed and leaking everywhere, and covered with oil, which is why the car stinks so badly. The muffler is rotten as well, and the shifter coupling is completely worn out.

When asked about an appraisal, they said it was 5k, maybe. Tops. But realistically given the amount of work it needs, probably under that.

Also... one other weird quirk, the speedometer is hilariously optimistic. It reads about 10-15over what I'm actually traveling at all times. The odometer is also flipping over really fast, and saying I'm covering more miles than I actually am. Causes?

I'm not sure I want to dive into this or not. Hrm.

I'm on the fence. It'd take a LOT of love to get this thing to be a nice driver without smoking all over the place.

More than love.

Money.

Unless you can get this thing for next to no money and can do the work yourself, every step, you may want to think really hard about pulling it all apart.

Good on you for not getting buck fever.

Let me quote myself from earlier in the thread...

Adding oil may have been a mistake, did you check it after warm and while running? If not you may have over filled. And those are oil return tubes.

Brakes will have to be gone through. They should feel incredible.

Don't think I'd be scared off, but after all this analysis I think you'd be justified in trying to get him down to $4,500-$5k.

I love my 75, I'm yet another that did it all wrong but it continues to be my favorite over a long line of car toys. I paid about this for mine a couple years ago with some items much better and a lot of items just plain missing. I'm tearing the motor apart at the moment after driving the piss out of it until it developed a rod knock.

Good luck, interested to watch your journey.

sent from my Galaxy S III

Since the discussion has been related to the desirability of mid-years, I feel justified making this request: Could Matt Gineo please post more photos of his stunning 1976 Targa? Your car is inspirational.
--SCOTT

So.... looking for some more input. If I were to pull the engine myself, strip it myself, get things hot tanked/cleaned up, and if, hypothetically, all the head studs were good, .... if I did the minimum of just some bearings/rings/seals, how much would that cost roughly? I could handle the labor on all that stuff, but I'm just wondering about budgeting to tear this sucker apart.

Budget $2,000 for parts and ”while you're in there's”, add another 3K if you need machining...

Even if your Studs are good it is always best to go ahead and put timecerts in the case while you have it split. Also be aware that the magnesium case might change shape when you split it so make sure to check your crankshaft fit carefully.

Thanks Scott, Unfortunately I don't have many photos yet, been too busy driving!


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1350514727.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1350514749.jpghttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1350514990.jpg

Wouldn't it be awesome just to find one with limited work required for the same type of money you'll have to spend on this one to get it right (plus time, stress, limitations, etc.)? I mean, aesthetically, you mentioned it needs paint and bodywork, and with the teardown of the engine which was previously jerry-rigged, do you still think this is what you want now that you're more aware of the car's shortcomings? If it were up to me and I'm sure others here as well, I'd just simply pass on it.

If I wanted a really nice one, yes.

I'm just wondering if I could get the car for 4-5k, spend about $1500 on weatherstripping, engine seal kit, suspension bushings, shifter coupling, shocks, and exhaust, then just drive it. The paint honestly doesn't bother me, I don't want another car I have to worry about nicks/dings. I'd like a driver.

There is no alternate universe that you will do all of that, even by yourself for $1500. However you would be able to do it all over time for say $4k and still have a decent car for about what one in that fixed up condition might sell for

sent from my Galaxy S III

Really? Here's what I was thinking:

Fix MAJOR oil leak: $5.75 (oil level sensor gasket)
Engine Gasket/Seal Kit: $250
Shifter Bushings: $22.00
Targa Seals: $500ish
Used heat exchangers off ebay: $450ish
Suspension: $800 for struts bushings.

Thoughts?

your own list adds up to over $2k, from similar experience you are going to find a couple dozen other "little things“ outside your engine that need replacing that will add up to say $500-1k.

I'm working on an engine rebuild after 2 glorious years (so far) with mine. I've spent ~$3k after purchasing getting it to a decent 10 footer. This while driving it not having to really touch the motor till recently.

I have a thread going so I won't rehash, seems my motor was rebuilt, has a lot of good parts I hope not to replace. I have a great collection of tools.

So far I've spent ~$500 just in tools to get my motor stripped down, on a stand. I've got a project list here on pelican that totals $600 without any bearings, valves, bushings, chains, or several other possible additions I sort of expect. So I agree with the $2k estimate.

I'm one actually supporting you on this car I just want you to go in with real eyes open.

sent from my Galaxy S III

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...D5057CC897.jpg

Installed some hood struts I scored off Rock Auto for $7 each. Work awesome. I haven't touched this car or given it much thought since I couldn't clean it and see what I was dealing with til now. Sucked about 1lb of mice poop/shells/seeds from the battery area, and hinge areas. Almost no rust whatsoever. Cleaned everything with 409, removed an ancient rusted alarm system that was self-tapped into the pan (UGH!) and sealed the holes with RTV. Hit the one slightly oxidized area of the battery tray with some Anti-Rust chemical that turns black. Going to cover that area with POR15 or some sort of enamel to prevent any rusting in the future.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...D50ED091DE.jpg
Installed a trunk strut ($6 on rock auto!). Sucked about 2lbs worth of poop/seeds/decaying foam from the sound insulation. Also ripped most of that out, it was laying on the engine doing nothing except looking like a fire hazard. The heater blower hose is shot. Everything is pretty scuzzy. Part of the A/C compressor interferes with the edge of the trunk, to the point where the sheet metal is bent upwards. Can't see how else the compressor would mount, are they all like that?!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...D52EFFD9D7.jpg
As a joke I put set a turbo emblem on the trunklid, but this gives you an idea of what the paint is like.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...D539575C68.jpg
All clean! Fluffed up the spare to make sure it held air. Cleaned it, the tools, found the original gloves that came with the car. Heh.

So did you pull the trigger in it then or still babysitting it?

sent from my Galaxy S III

Opinions are just that, opinions. Despite the advice given time and time again in this thread about your prospect, we are all glad you purchased the car. I'll be the first to bet you $1.00 that as excited you are that you bought struts off rock auto for cheap, that within the next 12 months, you will far exceed the $1,500.00 set goal to make the car more or less okay. Best of luck and mark your calendar for next year, cash!

Well... i still haven't pulled the trigger. I'm trying to put some miles on it and see what it needs, planning on doing a compression test as well. If compression is good... hopefully I can do a super low-buck rebuild (gaskets, maybe rings, thats it) and replace stuff like the exhaust.

I noticed the rear defrost doesn't work, and yesterday, I'm not sure what happened, I think a bushing in the shift linkage FELL OUT of the car. It's extremely hard to shift now, finding gears is a chore. I have the car until spring at which point I either need to pull the trigger or help sell it, but I'm tinkering with it til then.

My super-low buck rebuild is approaching $1500 and I've yet to find out just how much Mr. Machine shop is going to ask for after only checking out my heads & P&C's (found 2 broken springs and a couple bad exh. bushings but otherwise perfect). Compression and Leakdown were good on mine so I'm not even doing the rings. I've been keeping up with it in my blog, going to add the spreadsheet to it after I add in the most recent orders coming up on $800 (I'll share it with you if you would like to peek).

That shifting problem is a bright spot, you probably just dropped a $5 bushing that you can replace in about 1/2 hour (I've detailed that in aformentioned blog as well and it's all over here in a search). Will bring shifting back to a joyous thing!

Rather cool you get the opportunity to play with it before actually buying it. (for both of you but I'd not be unhappy about it either)

I just read your blog start to finish. It's excellent! Thank you for sharing all that, it was fun to see your journey! This 911 is a bit more beat cosmetically, but mechanically everything seems to work fine, drivetrain wise.

The shifter bushings should be here next week, I'm going to remodel them in Solidworks and machine some out of delrin; I'll be making a few extra sets if you're interested. :)

Xmas loot:
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...87704268_n.jpg

Want to do a bit more reading before I pull the trigger. :)

K, I decided I'm going to do it. Considering the engine def needs a rebuild, I'm not sure what I'm going to do at this point. On one hand, redoing the 2.7 would be pretty cost effective. OTOH, swapping in a 3.2 seems to be better in every single aspect. Decisions decisions. I'll post some more pics soon.

Congratulations :)

I'm almost at the point where I feel like I could say a rebuild CAN be done for ~$2k if no major components are fried. 3.2 sounds tempting but buying a running one w/o knowing when it will need to be opened up is going to cost min. $5k IIRC.

Hell, when I started my current journey I looked into swaps, even doing that right is going to start at $5-7k and go up.

Beware, these cars are addictive :) I have had mine off the road for far too long.

....and thanks for the compliment about my silly little blog