'84 3.2 no start

[Blaize]

Gentlemen. I am running up against a bit of a strange prob and wondered if anyone here has run into this before. Car is an 84 carrerra 3.2, and for the sake of this discussion, it's all stock.

So about 2 weeks ago I started getting an intermittent refusal to crank. When the key was switch to ignition on, all the dash lights and gauges worked except the generator light, and when the key is turned to start, just the hum of the fuel pump. No click, no dimming of the lights, nothing. This became more and more common, usually a five min wait and it would fix itself, and now it does it constantly. Fortunately it was at home when it went from intermittent to flat out broken.

Today I removed the starter, found moderately corroded connections and cleaned it all up. On the bench it works fine. When removed it was very hit and miss, but now that the terminals are all clean, works every time.

Back into the car it goes, and the problem persists. Only now the solinoid clicks when turned to start. Still no cranking, and still no generator light.

Common sense would dictate I replace the starter, and if that's the case then so be it. But that generator light is what confuses me. When it was an intermittent problem, I always knew when it was not going to work because the gen light would not come on with the oil light when the key was turned to ignition. Then 5 min later, turn to ignition, both idiot lights, and sure enough it fires right up.

Am I grabbing at straws here and it just needs a starter? Or has someone else seen this before and have some idea where to look? Frankly I just hate to throw £200 at the starter and not get anywhere.

Thanks in advance for any insights.

[Mr Project]

I've dealt with some similar symptoms on one of my old RX-7s and after chasing the starter and cables around for a while, it turned out I had a couple of cells going bad in the battery. Have you had the battery tested?

[Fixer]

Clean all your major grounds yet?

[Blaize]

I have not had the battery tested. I was thinking that would be the next step actually. I have never run into it myself, but I have heard stories about battery's with a wonky cell or two that will drop in and out like this. I only have a test light with me here at home, will have to bring the multimeter back from the shop to see what sort of voltage I am getting.

Yep, all the grounds have been checked and cleaned. Did it when I bought the car last year.

[steely]

This might be dumb, but is it possible that there could be a minor misalignment of the starter to the flywheel caused by the re-installation preventing full extension/tooth engagement? And could that be resolved by moving the car an inch or so in gear? or does the starter design always permit good engagement and quash my theory?

I just think its odd that you'd have 2 electrical issues (starter connections and poor electricals).

[pete3799]

Did you include the ground between the trans. and the chassis?
When i bought my car it (the starter) would just click at times. After cleaning the above ground it has not happened since.
Also check the 14 pin connector in the engine compartment. The alt. light wiring runs through it.

[Quicksilver]

Something is wrong with your description as the fuel pump on a 3.2 DME Carrera will not run until the DME sees that the engine is turning. That is why you have a "DME relay". It enables the low power circuits of the DME to turn on the high current demands of a fuel pump. The humming was most likely the starter 'kinda trying' or something like the hum of a stero amp.

You need to check voltages...
- Check as it sits there.
- Check when cranking (or trying to).
- Get some long leads with alligator clips and check voltages at the solenoid and at the starter.

Test, Test, Test!!!
All these systems are testable so don't fall into the "Parts Replacement" trap until you have gone through the easy tests. (and after the easy tests it is better to test the harder stuff...)

[timmy2]

Try starting with a different battery or by jumping/boosting with another car yet?
If it starts change the battery.

Edit:
Oops missed the no charging light... Do what db says below...

[db_cooper]

When the key was switch to ignition on, all the dash lights and gauges worked except the generator light,

If the GEN light is not coming on, you have a problem there.

Could be more complicated..but first things first. Lets keep it to the basics.

If the GEN lamp is not coming on, even if the engine is off and ignition on, your alternator will not be charging the battery once running.

I've had 911s with the bulb burnt out on the GEN lamp..and the charging system is inoperative.

1. check the bulb

2.if the bulb is good..check for voltage from 15 on the switch

3. if you have 12v at the bulb, then you may have a defective voltage regulator. Time to R+R the alternator, replace the internal regulator (I'm sure they all had an internal regulator by 1984..could be wrong..it may have one behind the plastic cover in the engine compartment, driver's side)

4. Have the alternator checked at a good auto shop..and do replace the internal regulator while it is removed. They are fragile and can fail. Use a new woven ground strap between the alternator and the bolt at the top of the engine while the alternator is out. It is a good time to renew it.

5. Once you know the charging system is working..GEN light on when the key is in the on position..engine off..then check the battery..It may have died a slow death with the GEN lamp not working (the GEN lamp is a feed for voltage to the VR to start the alternator working..if the bulb is blown..the alternator will never fully charge the battery) Take the battery to a GOOD shop and have it charged and checked. Replace if there is any question.

6. I would replace the woven ground strap between the transmission and the chassis, under the car, if it is original. Clean the connections and make sure the fittings are tight. This is just a good preventative maintenance item on any old 911. Do the same for the woven negative battery ground too. Both ground straps can be a problem with starting issues.

Chances are you will replace a defective GEN bulb and charge the battery and the 911 will start. Replace the grounds when you can.

[db_cooper]

Test light is fine. You probably have a blown bulb. Put a new bulb in there and see if the GEN lamp is working. Charge your battery too.