I would leave the WUR alone for now as the pressure readings in the OP are more or less fine.

What do you think about the position of the air plate sensor.? From looking at the screw beneath I assume it is high up in the throat of the intake. There is almost no adjustment left.

That did strike me as strange, it seems like the idle adjustment maybe wound too far? or that its not returning ?

It also appears that there is a Vacum pipe missing from the AAV.......

I sent this diagram to Bill as It breaks down the whole system to an easy pathway...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1352199658.jpg

wasserkuhl,
Chassis number 9117600150
Engine number *6670193*.
Type 930/02
On the bottom of each side of the engine are :
Left Side. 930.101.103.0R
Right Side 930.101.104.0R

Are these last two numbers what you are looking for?

I'll send you pics of these numbers.

Bill

Number 9 is the "true decel valve". It stops the revs from falling quickly when you -at speed- drop the clutch. It opens up and lets air through so fuel remaining can burn more cleanly as well. So in a sense also emission related. I find it also helpful in shifthing smoother with the 915 gearbox.

A lot of them have a ruptured diapraghm and can cause idle issue at hot as described by the OP.

He should not be looking at a T with a second vacuum going to the WUR as he has a WUR with no vacuum "leaning out" function. Only the 089 type WURS have that.

Number 2 is the AAV aux air valve. It only functions at start-up. It allows the engine to take a gulp of air to aid with startup. I have yet to see one that failed. Either they work or they are completely broken but in that case they do not seem to cause any issue as they have (after the AAR has closed) no source to search for outside air.

Vereeken,

Just a quick update as I've not had a chance to do any of your test list yet.

The idle with vacumn line from the distributer plugged stays at 2000 at operating temp and drops back to approx 1050 when put back on the distributer.

I did buy a bunch of vacumn line today and will replace as much as I can as at least one line was rotten.

Cheers

Bill

I think you need to go slow and tackle piece by piece. i think someone tuned your CIS to make it run half decent. You can do that with CIS and the issues only show themself in specific cases (cold idle, low loads, high loads). But there is only one setting that is correct. Mine was like that (and a lot of P-mechanics make the same mistakes. CIS is 35 years old, so the knowledge is fading)

So lets start with the distributor ; the ignition timing and the vacuum lines to the distributor.

Get us first a photo of the distributor to confirm we have a retard/advance vacuum assisted distributor. Quite frankly the retard function is pointless for a UK or AUS car but hey, it will also work.

Next step is to connect the vacuum hoses to the distrib the right way around.

Once that is done we need to confirm ignition timing.

Michel

Vereeken,

I've finally gotten around to some more of your to do list.
The AAR is slightly open (1/3) when cold and fully closed when hot. It takes about 4 minutes to close when 12v is applied to it as well.

I wasn't sure which vacumn line to plug on the decel valve (top or bottom).

Ive also 'started renewing vacumn lines as at least one was perished.

Please see the requested pics.

cheers

Billhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1352873542.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1352874190.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1352874241.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1352874275.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1352874302.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1352874351.jpg

Slowly slowly , Catchy Monkey!!

Well Done Bill, great progress.

And also on the iOS update, you can now upload!!!

Are you testing as you progress and replace?

wasserkuhl,
Not sure I am any closer to understanding what the issue is as yet but I'm pretty sure it's not the AAR. That opens and closes as it should unless 4 min to close with 12v is too slow.
I've only replaced two vacumn lines so far with no change to the cold start and havn't checked the hot start yet.
If anything cold start running seems slightly rougher to my ear.
I've not upgraded my OS yet. I had a lightbulb moment and emailed the pics to my work computer and uploaded from there! DUH!
Vereeken,
I'm looking forward to yourcomments and see where I go from here.
The AAR tests had an ambient temp of 60f.

Cheers

Bill

Ok so your AAR is out of the equation. 1/3 open is ok. What was the outside temp when you established 1/3 open.
Closing time in 4 minutes is perfect.

Your distributor is the Vacuum advance ONLY type. you have no retard line that I can make up from this photo. If you would have a retard line it should be on that "mushroom " on the other side of the vacuum advance hose.

So basically without checking the dizzy number, your distributor is OK for a UK car with CIS.

What is apparent from the dizzy photo is that you are at maximum mechanical advance. The nut holding the dizzy is full right. That ain't normal unless you plan on racing it.
The most common reason for this being fully right is either a mechanic that did not know what he was doing or tired counter weights in the dizzy. Time to look up the thread "Distributor clean real easy" from Gunter.

Next steps. We need to know the Bosch number stamped on the WUR. It is on top of the WUR and it will end in 089 (hopefully) or 076 or something like that. We also need a clear picture of the WUR. Now it is obscured by the ventilation/absence of heating-hoses.

Next step. Check your timing with a strobe when fully warm and vacuum line to dizzy blocked. 1000rpm steady idle.

Once we have all that we can reset everything to OEM specs.

I will venture a small guess, but I think you have too much mechanical advance and some of the smaller vacuum hoses incorrectly wired. Possibly a too rich fuel setting as well.

Also do a simple test an let me know the result. With the engine at 1000 rpm idle pull the vacuum hose from the dizzy and touch it with your tongue :D Does it suck or do you feel a feable suction force. If it sucks with a strong force it is connected at the wrong place at the back of the Throttle body.
X-rated stuff all this.

Michel

vereeken,
The earlier AAR tests were at 60f.
You may be onto something regarding fuel setting as I think this car runs rich from the smell of the exhaust.
Here are a couple of pics of my WUR.

many thanks for your help.

cheers

Bill


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1352894831.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1352894917.jpg

AAR is pefect then.

The 033 is also OEM for the UK 77. So all is standard I would say.

Here are the pressure specs for the 033. All in bar

76 - 77 .033

System pressure:4.5 to 5.2

CCP 1.4 @ 10 celsius
WCP 3.2 @ 40 celcius
WCP Vac connected 3.6 @ 40

So you need to check these values again. As you will see there is a spec for the VAC conected. I do not see any vacuum connected to your 033.

I am not a specialist on the 033 but I believe that the nipple on top is the vacuum on the 033 types. on the 089 types the vac is at the left and the nipple up above is atmosphere. The vac leans out the fuel pressure. At WOT the vac fall s away and thus the pressure reduces hence the mixture is allowed to go rich.

Do a search on Pelican for WUR 033. You will find some information on how to hook up.

The ignition timing must certainly be checked. Its position is quite abnormal.

If I have time I will look into the 033 more closely. For now check pressures and timing.

The presurre check can be done without engine running. Also warm ccp does not need a running engine.

The round port on the WUR does have a vacumn line on it.

I removed this line and the electrical plug to take the pictures.

Ok.

So lets focus on the WUR and dizzy:

1. What is the ignition timing now at idle?
2. cold control pressure @ start and after 1 minute.

As to the vacuum lines. It will not be the first car to have mixed up the vacuum lines going to the WUR and Dizzy.

The vacuum line to the dizzy should come from behind the Throttle Body. At 1000 RPM you should not feel any suction. The force of the suction should increase with increasing revs.

The vacuum line to the WUR should show stable suction throughout the rev range. It can be that it falls away as of 5000 rpm but I need to get the details on the 033.

Verify that and let us know.

Michel

Close Call I think I Nearly set Fire to it!
 

I set up the fuel pressure tester to check the cold control pressure again, ran the cold test then started the engine to prepare for the hot test.

I soon noticed dark grey smoke coming out from behind the throttle body and out of the right hand pipe that goes from the heat exchanger to the engine compartment blower. The pipes to the blower were still disconnected from photographing the WUR yesterday.
After turning the car off I realised I had a fuel leak where the fuel pressure gauge was connected to the fuel distributer.

I think the fuel had mixed with oil on the engine and or heat exchanger (I have a couple of top end oil leaks at least) and was gassing off but hadn't ignited yet! Does this sound like a reasonable assumption?

I don't believe the car actually caught fire as I cannot find any damage and the smoke dissapated by itself.

The first pic below shows clearly a tube of smoke coming from the right hand pipe. I have video of it as well but not sure how to post it.

Regarding vacuum lines my dizzy line comes from the front left side of the throttle body and has strong suction at idle. I didn't check the WUR line yet or the timing.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1352971820.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1352971920.jpg

Oil from the heat exchangers burning off. Perhaps mixed with some fuel.

Nothing major. As long as the engine is not at operating temp.

You do not need to run the engine to read FP when hot. Is is enough that you let the fuel pump run by jumping the fuel relay in the trunk. by doing so you supply 12V to the WUR conection and the bi-metal can heat up. Allow this for 5 minutes and read your WCP.

It is said that the engine heat heats up the bimetal as well. While this is true it should -according to me- not make any difference. THe bimetal should be able to hold the FP at the desired range without engine heat.

The fact that you have strong vacuum suction at teh dizzy when at idle is incorrect. It should be very weak if not absent at 1.000 rpm. Chance is that this hose needs to go to the WUR and the WUR to the dizzy.

Michel

First attempt at video upload
Unsure why the quality is so bad the original on the iPad is very clear!

smokevid2 - YouTube

Perfect quality!

The smoke only comes from the airhose.

My guess is that your heatexchangers are rusted through or that oil /fuel has gotten in them from overfuelling etc...

I would not worry about it but budget on replacing them soon.

Then again they are pointless if you really live in a cold climate.

Focus again on the cold idle issue. Post a video when you start the car from cold but with engine sound now.

I can usually smell burnt oil after driving the car but never any smoke to speak of.

The smoke in the previous video gave me a bit of a fright I must admit.

This Video taken immediately before smoke started.
Engine from cold start, vacuum to dizzy off, then on again near end of video.

I was alone so had to start engine then run to back of car to film.

I'll set up the iPad tomorrow on a stand and reshoot cold start with dizzy vacuum connected.

Perhaps I'll reverse those vacuum lines too eh!

smokevid3 - YouTube

That is weird!

The revs fall when you unplug the vacuum hose from the dizzy...that is the symptom of a dizzy with retard hose except it isn't.

We need to get ignition timing first before we go further. So ign timing with vacuum not attached and plugged.

Can you also make sure the rotor of the dizzy points to #1 (the small indent in the dizzy body) when the pully of the crank points to Z1 -arrow on fan housing aligned with Z1).