Shawn,

Your car is definitely running hotter than it should in 80° weather!

Alan,

<b>There is no confusion ... if you would BOTHER TO READ the posts! The SAME distributor specs were used on ALL 2.4 engines, ALL 2.7 CIS, engines, AND the Carrera 3.0 engine! If you actually look at the sticker I posted ... it DOES say that it applies to 2.7 liter engines!!! The fact that the data I posted in the other thread came from the '72-'73 spec book is irrelevant! The factory service manual states specifically that the distributor data for the 2.4 engines is to be used for the 2.7 CIS engines!

You are mistaken about your distributor having vacuum advance!!! It has a vacuum retard module that only functions at idle! If you want verification, just put a timing light on your engine, then start the engine and observe the timing ... remove the vacuum line and plug it, and notice that the timing advanced by about 10° when the vacuum was disconnected ... now rev the engine and observe the advance smoothly changing to a maximum in the advance vicinity of 30° - 40°!</b>

Shawn, the throttle switch thingie I mentioned is on my car, but i don't know whether yours has one. Its function is to cut off electricity to the fuel pump while the engine is off, like in the case of a collision. When the engine starts and the air flow sensor plate rises to get out of the way of the incoming air, it flips a switch that allows the FP to get electricity once the key is released. If the air flow sensor plate were to fall far enough due to poor idle, it might trip the switch. This would make the FP relay click.

Alas, I am otherwise engaged on the weekend of July 12-14. I wish it were not so.

Shawn,

The fuel pump relay and airflow contact were BOTH added in '76 ... so, yes, your CIS system has the switch contact Super Jim referenced.

Superman that SUCKS. Oh well we will have to make another reason or engine drop to meet.

Where is this switch? I will check it out too.

Warren, the car WILL be set to 5 ATDC, vacuum connected tonight. You know that Most of us on this board will do ANYTHING you say. (Dangerous) If you said to set it to 50 degree BTDC and REV it that the popping is normal. Most of us would leave it that way :eek:

Thanks soo much again everyone for all the help you KEEP giving me.

Shawn

Hey Sup....

Well first of all I didn't say you were confused. I said I was confused. And I still am. Here's a pic of my Fan plate
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/DSCN0096.jpg

Very different than yours. Notice how your plate shows the Z1 mark slightly over to the right with a black mark at the 5 deg ATDC mark and settings @ 5deg.

Mine shows the Z1 mark on the left with the black mark at Z1 with settings to be +/- 2 deg. @ TDC.

The confusion is in the Z1 mark. I don't know what the hell mine says now.

Shawn, the switch Superman is referring to is dirctly behind the rubber boot on the throttle body. You can't see it. You have to feel behind the boot and follow the electical lead to it. It's about an 1" or 2 below the bottom of the boot. You may want to jiggle it or pull it in and out a few times to try an clean it. It would make sense if this was faulty the relay would constantly click and may stop clicking once things got really hot in there.

p.s. I did read the posts.

Alan,

That sticker is certainly a new data point!!! The 'CID 163.9' refers to the displacement in cubic inches! Known in the rest of the world as a 2.7 liter engine ... that sticker seems dedicated to the USA market ... and the 'Series II' designation is a bit of a mystery ... but I am quite certain it pertains to 2.7 liter engines with Dilivar studs that appeared in mid-year 1977 production! It seems to be a revision specifically made for latter 1977 production, or possibly retrofitting after the discovery of the thousands of cars in the southern USA were pulling studs because of the thermal reactors and inane timing specs! There was an unofficial 'recall' on 2.7 engines in '76-'77 for retrofitting of Dilivar studs and it often involved entire replacement engines.

However, I do believe the sticker has an error with respect to the four timing marks and Z1 notch! You can verify this by checking yopur crank pulley ... and cleaning off the four notches and pulley. Does the second notch from the left have a 'Z' to the left of the notch? I believe the heavy diamond symbol should have been over the second notch, not the first on the left! The layout of the crank pulley was made for 1972 MFI engines and the same pulley, including the fifth notch to the far left at 40° after TDC marked FE for timing of the MFI pump ... which was used thru early 1976 production of the 911/83 RS 2.7 engine ... and even thru SC and Carrera 3.2 engine production! I have never seen any evidence of a unique 1977 pulley as marked on that sticker!

OK Let's add EVEN more confusion.

My sticker shows the Z1 mark in the exact same place as Alans???? And it also says Family II. I thought the Z1 mark was a TYPO. I will post a pic of my sticker tommorow because my is different again. Has no mention of an airpump, the ignition timing says 15 +/- 2 ATDC

But mine also mentions California, so as Warren mentioned in an earlier post, mine was probably originally a Californian car.

Funny especially since Alans car and mine are even the same year.

Shawn

Here is my sticker. Sorry about the flash point.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads/Dscn0538.jpg

Shawn

Warren,
I'll check out the other marks on the pully this PM.

To further complicate things, when I rebuilt the engine from the crank out I used these marks to set the valve overlap and still obviously use them to set the valve clearences and ignition timing. Now I'm woundering if overlap settings are right !

With the Z1 to the left, a case could be made that the right mark should be 5 deg. BTDC but I don't know what use that would be. Any engine timed BTDC ???? Any engine that you know of use TDC as ign. timing mark ??

There is no "Z" anywhere on the pully.

On the rebuild, found some studs that pulled out so don't know about the Dilivars.

Now I would really like to get the petigree and real data on this engine. Would VIN # and Engine # help ?? Where's the engine # ??

I think there are some other stickers on the doors that can narrow it down such as a (NON-CATYLIST) non-Calif. car.....and a "born-on date" some time in late 1976.

SHAWN, does your care have any other stickers on the doors ?

Yes, the RS 2.7 engine used TDC timing at idle with the standard '73 crank pulley.

Here is the factory service manual page related to '77 timing data ... I found it very interesting that the vacuum port was blocked permanently!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...mingData-s.jpg

So Warren, should mine be then reset to TDC and plug my vacuum?

I did try that the other day and it ran poorly.

Shawn

Shawn,

That sounds like the best plan to me. Ultimately, it may have a positive effect on your oil temp!

Thanks Warren. As the car originally ran was ATDC with vacuum connected. So If I set it back to TDC and block the vacuum you think it MAY run cooler?

How does the timing affect the temps? Retard = hotter /advance = cooler? I know only within specs but is that the general rule?

Warren how hot do you think my car will continue to run, without the loop cooler? I was thinking 210 in mid 80s weather NOT 230. Or does anyone out there have a 2.7 CIS nwith no cooler to give an idea.

Shawn

Shawn, keep in mind that timing advance and idle speed are related. Been a while since I did it, but I think retarding your timing by moving it from from TDC to 15 ATDC will slow down your idle speed.

This would probably explain why it ran like crap when you changed the timing.

Tom
(If you know this, and reset the idle speed, and it still ran like crap, never mind)

Tom

Oddly enough, Shawn my car doesn't have the aux. oil cooler and @ 80 deg. outside temp I run at about 190F. It may sneak up to 200F if in traffic.

Of course I have the 11 blade fan and when I rebuilt the engine I modified the air deflectors per Bruce Wayne.

Before the rebuild I got into the 240-250F range all the time and the oil got so thin the green oil pressure light would come on at idle. Hasn't happend since. Scary.....

So Warren, Now what..... Im going to plug it and see what happens with no Vacume advance.

Will let you guys know. I like to see if I get the same results as Shawn did. I don't think I'm going to go to 15 deg. however.

Also, any idea what the Series II Family means ???

And still wondering what effect, if any, setting the overlap using my Z1 mark had.

Thanks Alan, I would love to get 190s, Dreaming here. I also have the 11 blade fan. My engine mounted oil cooler is good, and clean there is no crap built up under the fiberglass shroud (I cleaned it last year.) What else could be causing the HOT temps I wonder? I think my temps hit 190 in 5 minutes of driving and climb from there till they hit 230. I have neverr had any lights come on so I guess I am ok there (so far). And all my head studs were tight in the winter, so the heat hadn't "bothered" them yet.

Shawn