Realistic HP expectations, 3.2 Euro 911

[Robin Reeve]

I have an engine that has been redone, along with the tranny of an 1985 911 3.2 Euro Convertible. It was "estimated" that after removing the heater, it should be around 260HP. I admit the car is quick, but not sure about the possible gains.

It was upgraded with stainless headers as well.

I'd like to see what else I can do to add some HP, maybe closer to the 300HP range, without spending a ton...

So, realistic, what are my options? Maybe a cat-bypass system? Intake option?

[Canada Kev]

Well, they were 231 from the factory, so I'm unclear how removing the heater would give you almost 30 more. I, too, would like to have 300hp, so I wish you luck...

[Quicksilver]

Headers and a complementary exhaust can be worth up to 20 HP. That isn't going to get you 260 HP. There isn't any realistic horsepower to be found in the intake.

An engine is an air pump and if you want 'more' you will have to pump more air.
Your choices are:
- Compress the air going into the pump.
- Spin the pump faster.
- Make the pump larger.
- Any combination of the above.

All the above will take $$$. The cheapest way to turbo it is to sell your motor and buy a complete turbo motor with all the pieces. To spin it faster you will need rods, valve springs, probably the rest of the valve train, head work, cams, intake work, and an upgrade to the EFI. To make it larger you need to either rebuild it with larger cans or buy a 3.6.

[whiterabbit]

I have had two low mile Euro 3.2's. One had SSI's, SW chip and M&K fitted and made 239hp. It was the fastest 3.2 I have driven that still had heat and air.

Realisitically I don't see any easy bolt on way of getting over 245hp keeping the car totally streetable without opening the motor and going to 3.4 or 3.5 and/or cams.

[porsche0nut]

I recommend reading "The Gold Plated Porsche". It's a fantastic read, but in the book he also goes all out on an engine rebuild. I forget the exact specs, but using a 3.2 as a base I believe he came to around 260 or 270hp in the end (no expense spared type of deal). If I remember correctly he had to increase displacement and twin-plug the engine, as well as upgrade all the internals to get there.

For 300hp, I think the most cost-efficient method is a 3.6 transplant.

If you already have stainless headers, I'm thinking you may not have a cat on there, so a bypass wouldn't improve. Do you know what type of headers they are? 1.5" or 1.625" diameter?

I think whiterabbit is bang on - SSI's or headers + M&K exhaust + Steve Wong chip is the most cost-effective hp upgrade for your engine. Whatever you end up doing please keep us posted and have fun!

[Fly911]

I will soon do a rebuild of my 1987 Carrera, I expect at least 350HP with a naturally aspirated engine. Noth the cheap route, but a very fun one!

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by Robin Reeve

I'd like to see what else I can do to add some HP, maybe closer to the 300HP range, without spending a ton...

So, realistic, what are my options? Maybe a cat-bypass system? Intake option?

Nitrous. Seriously, this is not practical. You can't get 70 more HP cheaply.

Take that money and get driving lessons at the track.

[Robin Reeve]

Makes sense. I am looking at the build sheet for the engine retune they did. looks like they did the following (to sum it up):

New Valve Job
Oil returns
piston rings
connecting rods
camshafts polished
crankshaft magnafluxed?
new oil pump
new oil cooler seals
upper gaskets
new distributor caps and wires
ngk spark plugs
new fuel injectors
new clutch
pro series headers and stainless steel ultra flow muffler ($895.00)
replaced oil lines
fuel filter

[1990C4S]

That is a reasonable build sheet IMO. Not sure about new con rods.

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by Robin Reeve

I'd like to see what else I can do to add some HP, maybe closer to the 300HP range, without spending a ton...

I doubt your motor is making anywhere near 260.

Awong chip may get you and additional 10 hp for $350.

300 hp is impossible for less than $15K.

[Downtownandy]

Magnafluxed just means that it was tested for cracks using visible or fluorescent magnetic particle solution and a magnet.

[Cory M]

check this out...

911Chips - Porsche Dyno Runs

[jason2guy]

one of those turbo kits for the sc is on ebay. its an nos piece, never installed.
comes w/pistons.
just an idea

[Quicksilver]

Originally Posted by Robin Reeve

Makes sense. I am looking at the build sheet for the engine retune they did. looks like they did the following (to sum it up):

New Valve Job
Oil returns
piston rings
connecting rods
camshafts polished
crankshaft magnafluxed?
new oil pump
new oil cooler seals
upper gaskets
new distributor caps and wires
ngk spark plugs
new fuel injectors
new clutch
pro series headers and stainless steel ultra flow muffler ($895.00)
replaced oil lines
fuel filter

Everything in the list with the exception of the headers/muffler won't do anything for horsepower.

Once again: For power you must pump air/fuel mixture. Your only real choices are turbo, higher RPM, increased displacement, or a combination of more then one of those.
Porsche didn't leave power on the table with the 3.2 except in the exhaust. You can ignore theses facts but there is no magic cool-collar, fuel line magnets, etc that will get you an increase.

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by Dueller

300 hp is impossible for less than $15K.

Only if you exclude forced induction. And if you did spend that much and get 300HP out of a N/A 3.2, that'd be like an RSR. It'd be undrivable on the street (especially in a heavy shell), and they're 40 hour engines.

However. You can turbo a 3.2 and add 100HP for half that much. Probably less if you shop around and don't get carried away with the shiny bits.

Google GoingSuperFast, or Protomotive. Ben (mb911) from M&K was making kits, if I recall.

Protomotive Stage ! Install (Part 1)
3.2 turbo upgrades "While in there"
M&K carrera turbo install
87 911 3.2 - Adding a Turbocharger???

If you want to make serious power, a 3.2 is actually a better platform to start with than a 3.3 (lets you re-use more parts/replace less) - which is probably why Ruf used the 3.2 as the basis for Yellowbird, quoted (probably conservatively) at 467HP.

[larrym]

but why?

are we talking "cafe racer" here?

(i culd'a if i'd'a want a' a )

just join PCA - go time trial - and THEN figure out if your car really needs more HP

where is anyone of us gonna use an extra 100 (or 300) hp ? (& at what comparable torq & rpm?)

i suppose it is a regional thing to some extent - if your competition is NASA 600 hp 1970 camaros at he intersection, well, that is it - go race with them and depart this board cuz we can't help on that

(read CarCraft for examples, and oogle the pinups as well)) (great mag imho)

stoplight racing is passe' - only collects tickets here on the left coast - gets no points in PCA standing (especially since many PCA biggies are lawyers, judges, etc)

PCA time-trialling "wins" are not gonna be long lived trophies - the rules makers will just put you in a class where your 100 hp is not a competitive factor

[Jaskas]

Originally Posted by Dueller

300 hp is impossible for less than $15K.

After $15k investement to my -87 i got almost 300hp out of the engine:



This is how the engine bay looks:

[strikee]

It is better to have 300bhp and not need it, than to need 300bhp and not have it.

[Robin Reeve]

Im not looking to race my car, simply put, I have had many other cars that bolt-on power seemed to be so easy. im starting to think that a Porsche doesnt share the same attributes.

I was told the Euro model, which I have was 230HP to begin with, from the US model's 207 or something. I have verified the engine does have stainless headers and a magnaflow muffler undernweath. no sign on the cat... So, is it unreasonable to think this car is pushing 240-250hp? I know a dyno would say differently as it is hp to the crank vs to the wheels, but I understand the difference.

Just curious if updating my cars intake or exhaust would be a benefit. Perhaps updating the spark plugs, wires, etc?

[safe]

Headers and ITBs will take you up to 260-270. After that you need new pistons, camshafts and conrods (because you will take the redline past 7000). Going past 7000 also requires a few other mods.

Bolt on power is not easy on a Porsche because the factory did a good engine from the start and didn't leave much on the table.