Vin

[panther]

Hello all,
I’m a new user and I was poisoned with Porsche virus
I found this community, when my friend send me a link to Marcus movie Urban Outlaw.
During my search for classic 911 car I find one 912 in my neighbourhood.
I checked VIN number on a chassis. Please look in a picture.

The seller said, that it is 1969 production year, according to VIN decoder I found out, that it is 1965. Is it, or I’m missing something.

For the engine number I didn’t manage to get optimal picture with all the numbers.
The last six numbers are 980354. What type of engine is it?

Thank you.

[jackb911]

The VIN is a VERY early 1965 912 with a Reuter (Porsche) body, the 58th production one made.

I can't help you with the engine number aside from it being a 911 engine. Hopefully one of the early 911 guys on here can help with that.

Assuming the body/chassis is in good, restorable condition, IMO this car would be worth considerably more with a proper 912 engine since it is a super early "painted dash" model where the metal part of the dash was originally painted body color.

If possible, could you post some pictures of the car's exterior and interior? There is a lot of interest here for the early 911's and 912's and you have a very rare piece. Also, there is a small ID plate on the driver's side hinge pillar that indicates the original paint color code.

My first Porsche was a 1965 built early 1966 912 and it was a great car. I wish I knew where it is today.

[djpateman]

Yes, the body is a very early 1965. If it is in reasonable shape then it could be a great find.
The engine is an early 1969. Cannot tell the type until you get the full serial #; it will be 6198035 911T type 901/19 or 6298035 or 911E type 901/11, and was originally for a sportomatic transmission. I suspect from the build # that is visible (1647?) that it is a 911E engine. The type # should be stamped above the build #, but I cannot tell what it is. Try to have them supply all those numbers. Also try and get the paint code from the badge on the drivers door hinge post.

You said "The last six numbers are 980354", but the 4 is actually a *, and there will be another at the start of the serial #.

[ajwans]

Painted red engine fan? Isn't that a MM trademark? I know they don't have a monopoly on red fans but it might be wise to ask whether the engine was rebuilt and who did it.

andy

[panther]

Thank you guys for the reply.
It is difficult for me to get all the information about the car, because original owner is not anymore in this world. His family don't have any history about the car. I don't even know who did the maintenance.
One think I know for sure, car is far from being in original state.
I will check again the engine number during the weekend.
Also the painting was badly done. In the next visit I will check for rust.
Do you have any hints, where specific to look for rust in these cars?
Enough writing, check the pictures:

[twistoffat]

Start by checking under the battery and around the window seals and bottoms of the doors.

[wasserkuhl]

worth further investigation.
strip all the layers away and restore it as it left the factory.

if I ever found a car like this, thats what I would be doing!

[ajwans]

Get the numbers from around the right side of the engine fan. That might be an S engine based on the MFI and the red engine shroud.

andy

[safe]

Looks like an S-engine, red shroud and fuel injection, worth some money...
Gauges looks more like from a 69 than a 65.
The doors has ventilation windows, those are 68 or earlier.

[AlexJ]

I would call it a "mix" of several cars...
Engine should probably be an "E" - the same guy who painted the impeller, painted the engine should...

Dash panel is from another car. The top is form a 69-73 period and he lower part from 2.7 car...

Wrong door inner panels and pullers, wrong steering wheel, door handles look correct, door arches and Windows trim painted in black....

Rear wheel arches not correct, fiberglass looking bumpers, non original sun roof.

Wrong seats (look aftermarket).

Many, many things to do!

To be honest, forget it! It will always be a 912 and it will cost a fortune to being it back to its original condition.

Most valuable thing: the engine, definitely!

Rust will be a problem on this car - it doesn't look a well maintained car.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by AlexJ

I would call it a "mix" of several cars...
Engine should probably be an "E" - the same guy who painted the impeller, painted the engine should...

Dash panel is from another car. The top is form a 69-73 period and he lower part from 2.7 car...

Wrong door inner panels and pullers, wrong steering wheel, door handles look correct, door arches and Windows trim painted in black....

Rear wheel arches not correct, fiberglass looking bumpers, non original sun roof.

Wrong seats (look aftermarket).

Many, many things to do!

To be honest, forget it! It will always be a 912 and it will cost a fortune to being it back to its original condition.

Most valuable thing: the engine, definitely!

Rust will be a problem on this car - it doesn't look a well maintained car.

+1

Though the VIN decodes to a 65 912, too much of the rest of the car appears to be a later car, possibly a 911. A 65 912 would not have the openings in the dash metal to handle five gauges so someone would have had to replace the metal frame of the dash as well as the trim and top, as mentioned. The front fenders are consistent with the 68's using the reflectors on the side. The body appears to be a short wheel base car as the rear tires do not look to be centered in the wheel opening due to after market, long wheel base flairs being addded. Consistent with a 65 or 68 body but not correct as it sits.

Look closely in the trunk area for signs of welding, either for an entire front clip or around the metal support which holds the stamped VIN and metal plate, and very very closely around the raised stamped area. (BTW, the metal VIN plate is attached with a type of screw rather than rivets, a non-factory sign.) Also, look very closely in the engine compartment, along the lateral support beams where the electrical panel is and the oil tank filler. If this was a 912, there would have been brackets welded there to hold the 912 engine which would have had to be removed to install a 911 engine. If you find no evidence of engine support brackets, the rear of the car, at least, is not from a 912.

In short, this car is a Frankenstein. If you want it, ok, but as mentioned it will never be worth your money to restore it to originality, assuming you can determine what it actually was.

[panther]

Thank you guys for fast reply.
I was afraid, that the most of the car is not in its original state.
If I summarized:
- Dash panel is wrong
- Wrong steering wheel, door arches and Windows trim painted in black
- Rear wheel arches, I'm not sure what is wrong here (maybe rear arches are from LWB)pleas correct me, If I'm wrong
- Fiberglass bumpers
- Sunroof
- Front fender
...
I lough about this one "In short, this car is a Frankenstein"
We must admit, that this one has a long list of modifications, unfortunately the wrong ones.
How much you think, this car is worth?
Can we identify the engine type based on this pictures?






rgds

[Daves911L]

Fascinating car! As others have correctly pointed out, an amalgam of seemingly incompatible parts. But somebody managed to get it all together. How much trouble would it be to install LWB dash vent controls in a SWB car? Or is it a SWB car? Maybe its all LWB with a transplanted vin? Or maybe a front clip? SWB vent windows. The odd '68/'69 door handle. All the MFI stuff appended to the left engine bay, and that is a 2.4 MFI matched with what someone decoded earlier as a 2.0 motor! So I'm starting to think its actually a '69 911T (any way you can check the "secret" vin under the dash face?), a "bitsa" motor, front clip, and assorted other parts. I like a good mystery, and this is one. If its reasonably cheap (as it should be for such a beast) and not stolen Buy it and have fun!

[Daves911L]

Wait a minute. Now I'm second guessing myself. I think I can make out just enough detail in the photo to think its a 2.4 distributor. And that left side tin has the heat riser pipe passing through it. The red shroud doesn't match the red fan. Flat and grungy as you'd expect. 2.4S, or........2.7RS! Probably not, but enough to give one hope. Much more interesting than the mythical uncles RSR.

[panther]

I got picture with clear numbers.
Is this S version?
6298035

[twistoffat]

The Motor is a 1969 911E sportomatic

[djpateman]

Damn I'm good, just what I predicted. Anyway, it is strange not to see the type # here, and can you tell me the last digit of the build #; I need it for my database. Thanks

[AlexJ]

LWB!
Transplanted Vin.
Alumínio plate atacked with screws on the wrong place.
Take a close look at the area on the trunk around the Vin stamp...

[FrenchToast]

Well, sounds like the pictured VIN is wrong for that car.

What is it titled as? If it is titled as a '65, they may have titled it wrongly in order to wipe the car's history.

Maybe both sections were cut out in order to give the car a new VIN. The car's original VIN may have been 'written off' and as far as records are concerned no longer exists. The car's true VIN could have some shady history.

Or, maybe just the front clip was replaced after an accident, and they didn't think to change the VIN. However, unless the repair was done before 1981 (when VINs were standardized), they probably wanted to change the VIN. I would be VERY skeptical of the car's history.

There have been lots of stories of VIN switching. Including VINs existing in two places (one VIN plate was removed, but other stampings on the car would remain, while the removed VIN plate is somewhere on another car).

Hope that makes sense.

Does anyone know - isn't there another spot on these cars where the true VIN may be stamped? Or at the very least, parts that are likely still original that have date stamps? Something inocuous, like decklid hinges, or the interior transmission cover? Obviously anything forward of the cowl isn't a reliable source.

The A-pillar windows appear to be movable - does this give a hint? As mentioned, the lower dash looks to be anywhere from 74-85, given the vents.

Take care!

[vintagecarlover]

Wow, wanna see how this plays out. Anyone missing a 911?