New Z Car - 280 HP for $34K

[DANNOV]

Interesting article on Wall Street Journal Online about the new Nissan Z car. They note that the most expensive version has 280 HP with a price of only $34,000. They also note that Porsche Boxster sales are off 31% so far in 2002. Wow, I didn't realize they had such a huge decline. With Boxster sales declining and the new SUV coming, Porsche could be in a bind again, just like in the early 90's. Who needs a new version of an SUV, particularily at a very high price. They are not going to make any money on that vehicle and it is just a distraction from their basic business. The Boxster is Porsche's bread and butter high volume car, that is where they make the money. I also notice that they are offering a new $499 lease deal on the standard Boxster. It will be interesting to see what happens at Porsche given this state of affairs. A falling dollar just adds to the problem. We could be coming to a time when you can wheel and deal for a new Porsche or a car coming off lease, and negotiate a sweet deal.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

I'lll be driving the new Z tomorrow (Tuesday) at the U. S. short-lead press intro. I'll let you know what I think of it...

Stephan

[Rot 911]

I'm looking forward to driving one of these cars, but the biggest drawback that I see with any expensive Japanese sports car is its resale value 3-4 years down the road. People just don't see Japanese cars as collectible.

[Neilk]

I was selected to go to a marketing study on the new Z about 12 to 18 months ago. The car looked great and everyone was pretty enthusiastic about it. The marketing guy still couldn't convince me though to buy a Japanese sports car.

They had all sit in a Porsche Boxster, BMW Z3, Honda S2000, and a couple of others cars to see what we liked and disliked about them before letting us see the New Z. I was really impressed with the S2000 (fit like a glove) and the new Z.

When is was time to discuss pricing strategies, he mentioned that they were going to start at $27k. A few others participants and I thought (dont' kill me now) that the price was too low. That low price would bring a perception of cheapness and lack of quality a la Trans Am or Camaro Z28.

Overall it was a nice way to spend 3 hours on a Saturday afternoon, especially for $150 for my thoughts.

Neil

[J P Stein]

Stephan:

I'm looking forward to your report.
I'm about due for a new DD as Mr.2 just flipped over 100K.(still pulls 12 psi of boost on the original turbo, tho.....he,he)

It would appear that used Boxster prices are in for a hit.
Lessee.....a new 280 hp Z-car or a used Boxster.........duh.
The Z car is kinda' odd looking (from the pics) but has enough good angles that I could get used to it. Coupled with typical Japanese build quality......

A similar implosion with S2000 prices (new and used)is also probable.

Now, if my job doesn't implode, things could get interesting.

[Jim T]

Originally posted by Kurt V
I'm looking forward to driving one of these cars, but the biggest drawback that I see with any expensive Japanese sports car is its resale value 3-4 years down the road. People just don't see Japanese cars as collectible.

How much is a 97/98 Boxster worth? They don't seem to be viewed as "collectible" by the used car market, either.

[tchanson]

Dannov,

With dealers being dealers, though, I would bet that its a year or two before anyone buys a new Z for anything close to sticker, whether $34K or otherwise. Supply always catches up to demand (i.e. new Beetle, PT Cruiser, S2000, new T-Bird et al), but the early adopters always pay through the nose for the "privelege" of being the first on the block with the automotive flavor of the month. Never understood that...

I agree with your comments re the current fire sale lease rates that PCNA is offering on Boxsters. I came across the following comments (not mine) on Autoextremist.com that might be relevant, whether you agree or disagree:

" With Boxsters piling up like cord wood at dealers across the country, Porsche has launched a desperation incentive leasing plan in order to help cut dealer inventories. As one veteran import dealer told us, "They made 'em like popcorn, what do they expect? They're dead in the water with the Boxster, and it's their own damn fault." Porsche obviously learned nothing from the 924/944 debacle, when they cheapened the brand in the interest of short-term profits. Fast forward 25 years, and Porsche management is at it again, churning Boxsters out "like popcorn" and saturating the American market to the point that they're seemingly as common as Camrys. And guess what? People don't give them a second look now, because, lo and behold - they've lost their "specialness." American consumers aren't that stupid, apparently. "

Tim

[Jim T]

I've got to agree with the autoextremist article.

I don't know if its because of overproduction or other reasons, but I don't give Boxsters a second look. I've driven them many times, they are fun cars and all, but in my book nothing "special."

Certainly nothing I would aspire to, or even think about spending the $$ they cost new.

I've never owned anything except German cars (and a few Italian oddities), but if I had to buy a new sports car, and the choice were between a $48K 217hp Boxster, and a $33K 280hp new Z, I'd definately give the Z a hard look.

But then again, I'm glad that the sports car market is coming back alive again. 4-5 years from now, there are going to be some great used car bargains.

[tobluforu]

I have always loved the 240z's. That car at the time was one of the best sport cars available for the money. I was working on my car this weekend and one of those new Z's flew by my house. For a stock car, it sounded great. I think the boxter with all it's hype should of had a more sport car sound to it. The z sure does. Looks better in person than in a mag. 280hp is a lot of power for a car that's not very big. What a blast that thing must be.

[turbo dave]

Just one question on the 350Z: what's it weigh? If it is sub 3000 lbs, the Boxster is in real trouble. Since the weight isn't mentioned anywhere, though, I'm worried the Z might be a porker. That would be a shame, it looks like it'll be a fantastic car otherwise.

[JonT]

There is no doubt that the new Z is a good looking car, fresh design, good hp numbers, cool looking futuristic interior...etc. BUT, there have been many nice looking cars that have come and gone over the years and NONE of them make the chemicals in my brain go GA GA like the 911. Timeless is the only word to describe this design. The curves, sounds, smells, of the 911 add up to something the new cars don't have...SOUL. It's funny how when you look at one something in your head just 'clicks' and draws you to it begging for another glance over the shoulder. This doesn't go away over time, and seems to fill a spot in the heart and mind that only a machine like the 911 can.

[ljonespwc]

I put down a $1000 deposit on a new 350Z in April (pre-order program). I paid sticker for it, but at $27K, there is no better deal out there. Estimated weight is around 3300lbs. with the LSD, but the last horsepower rating I heard was 293HP. Nissan is trying damn hard to hit 300 n.a. HP before production starts in August. The new Altima 3.5 is getting 0-60 times in the low 6's (with 240HP), so a sub 6 should be very likely for the new Z. Last Japanese car I owned was a 1993 RX-7, and I had considered waiting for the new RX-8 next January, but after reading about Nissan's newest addition (addiction), change my plans.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

3300 lbs.?!? That's only 100 lbs short of what an Audi A4 weighs!

[Jim T]

3300 lbs. would be disappointing. That is pretty porky for a 2 seat sports car.

2800 lbs, 295 hp, $27,000 with sport suspension and manual transmission and minimal options . . . that would be a knockout.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Actually, just put that V6 in a new MR2 and I'll buy it.

[slakjaw]

i would buy a Z car,, if thay wernt water cooled

[Lothar]

I share the sentiment regarding the 240Z. They were real sportscars and the 260Z is now a very respectable collector car thanks to the limited production.

However, I don't really understand the thought process that can justify puting $30k or more into a 300hp daily driver unless I already have a 600hp P-Car for the track and or weekends.

With a thoroughly prepared track car ready for a fun weekend of DE or club racing, I'd buy a nice SC for around town. Then you could join the SCWDP!

An aquaintance of mine bought a Boxter S. With respectable power and awesome brakes, it is impressive but a 911 it isn't.

There's a reason why you need to put water in a Nissan...

It's still a rice cooker with wheels.

[Jack Olsen]

I have a 290-hp daily driver, and a 280-hp track/weekend car. That shouldn't make sense, but my daily driver weighs 3600 pounds and is an automatic, so there's no real comparison, in terms of performance.

(The 350Z-whatever holds no appeal for me, though. I just don't get it.)

[Brian993]

Looks like I got out of the Boxster just in time!

[ZAMIRZ]

Just wait for the Nismo boosted version. K, that's all I'm gonna say (or at least all i'm aloud to say). BTW, if the 350Z doesn't do much for you wait for the next Skyline (we're supposed to get it).

later,

amir