Calling all Half Shaft / CV Joint Experts

fitchesbass · 01:45 PM

I posted a thread before the holidays asking about a pinging or cluncking sound - thanks for everyone's suggestions (Ticking Sound with Clutch Out? Thoughts)

Well today I finally had a chance to look at it and I'm fairly confident its the passenger side half shaft connection to the transaxle.

Below is a video of the noise / slop that I'm seeing. The drivers side seems much tighter without this 'play'.

I just tightened all the (6) bolts to ~ 35 ft lbs as I was reading that pre-85 cars have M8 bolts vs. M10 (is this correct?). There are lots of good threads out there but I'm having a tough time boiling it down to the proper torque for my 84 3.2L Carrera. It difficult to get in there with a torque wrench and I'm paranoid about striping/rounding the hex head as they are already in a so-so shape.

Any help / advice and comments on the proper torque would be great.

Thanks and happy new year,
-Derek

Here is a clip after I tried tightening to 35 ft lbs. Hasn't changed much from when I started - if at all?!

Half shaft / cv joint play - YouTube

spuggy · 01:56 PM

No, that video shows gear lash in the transaxle, if anything at all.

Think of the two flanges the CV's bolt to, one at the transaxle, the other at the wheel drive flange.

The axle does (and should) move freely end-to-end (up and down the splines on the CVs), toward/away the two drive flanges.

To check the play in the CV joints themselves, grab the axle above the boot, and push/pull at 90 degrees to that end-to-end direction, does that make sense? Then check the other CV.

ANY play in the CV is too much, they should move freely but no "knock" when you shake them. This is a bearing, there should be nothing broken or worn/skidding/overheated inside. If there's play, some of the above has certainly happened.

Rotate the CV and check again. You may find play with the axle in the normal orientation (e.g. wheels on ground, suspension loaded) that you don't when the car is on a lift (because the wheel droop takes you into the "new" part of the CV that sees almost no wear.

The CV's should be periodically disassembled, cleaned/inspected, re-greased with 4oz of grease per side and re-fitted. Either a filthy time-consuming job or a zen bonding with your car, your choice

Personally, if I'm paying shop rates or on a deadline, new axles make sense.

fitchesbass · 03:36 PM

Thanks for the feedback

I haven't checked the bolts on the wheel hub side (if that's what you are initially referring to). I should check those as well.

I should note (for what its worth) in that video the car has the parking brake on and in neutral. If I take the ebrake off and rotate the half shaft quickly back and forth from the wheel hub I hear the same type of slop. But I only get that 'slop' on the passenger side - which what has me wondering.

That's a good point about the geometry of the half shaft with the car in the air vice on the ground with the wheel/tire on.

Not sure I totally follow your advice for check play in the CV joints themselves. It sounds very similar to what I've been doing - I'll head out to the garage and try it though.

john walker's workshop · 01-05-2013, 02:11 PM

i replaced an axle assembly on an '84 yesterday that had a clanking noise on/off light throttle. pretty noticeable. the inner cv race was trashed. big divots. this was a lobro axle with 40K on it.

spuggy · 01-05-2013, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitchesbass

Not sure I totally follow your advice for check play in the CV joints themselves. It sounds very similar to what I've been doing - I'll head out to the garage and try it though.

Park the car.

Lie under the back, look forward/around the rear wheel. Reach up and firmly grab the axle just above the rubber boot on the CV joint.

Shake the axle back and forth horizontally, level with the ground. (You are exterting force perpenidicular to the axle itself, NOT end-to-end between the two drive flanges the CVs bolt to).

Does it move, click or knock? FAIL.

Grab the axle at the transaxle end, again just below the rubber boot.

Try to shake the axle back and forth as before.

Does it move, click or knock? FAIL.

Roll the car forward 8-9 inches. Repeat a few times.

That's the quick test.

You can also remove the axles. Any grinding sensation when moving the CVs around is bad. Almost certainly be a FAIL when you dissemble to clean/re-grease. Just save the time and replace.

Think "bearing surface". The inside of the CV joint should have no gouged or ripped up surfaces, skidding/blued or chipped balls or grooves inside. Any bearing chips inside the joint will wreak havoc - so any of these means replacement time.

fitchesbass · 09:00 PM

spuggy - thanks for the advice - really great stuff.

I tried your tests quickly (albeit I didn't roll the car and try multiple times). Everything seemed ok.

Even funnier (perhaps) is that after checking the torque of all bolts in the rear end (rear wheel spacers, rear lugs, half shaft bolts) - nothing seemed loose - but I just took it for a ride and the noise is completely gone. I tried really hard to get it to happen against (low speed, low revs, off the throttle in 2nd gear was the ideal condition earlier) and it sounded all very tight - no noise.

Go figure. Still bugs me I don't know what was causing it.

Walt Fricke · 01-05-2013, 09:08 PM

Don't you just hate that! Something is wrong, you futz with it without finding or doing anything you think is going to resolve things, give up, but the problem is gone.

TDIDog · TDIDog's Garage

Not sure if this is BS, but I was told that a clicking noise that I have on accel, and decel could be the Ebrake shoes. I haven't had time to adjust. Is there any merit to that or should get new CVs?

Thanks
jack

fitchesbass · 01-05-2013, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt Fricke

Don't you just hate that! Something is wrong, you futz with it without finding or doing anything you think is going to resolve things, give up, but the problem is gone.

Haha - exactly! I'm happy its gone.. but after spending an afternoon it, it would be nice to know what it was.

ebrake shoes might be it. I plan on doing the brakes sometime in the future and I'll have to check 'em out!

ClickClickBoom · ClickClickBoom's Garage

Does the CV have grease in it? The sliding back and forth axially could have smooshed enough grease around to stop the noise.

Walt Fricke · 01-06-2013, 07:41 PM

If it doesn't have grease in it, he is in big trouble.

Spuggy says 4 ounces. I've never measured, I just pack in as much as I can.

I think that normal driving, with bumps and whatnot, tends to move the CV balls around enough that they will redistribute the grease if it is present in adequate amounts, and hasn't overheated and hardened. But if your theory is correct, he'll soon enough have his noise back.

fitchesbass · 01-07-2013, 04:00 PM

I drove the car in a mildly spirited fashion on Sunday tooling around some local roads and it drove great - no noise before, after, or during the ride.

I also drove it to work today and had no issues. It doesn't seem like something major... whatever it was/is. I did all the checks noted above and everything seemed fine. I'm wondering if it was just a subtle difference after re-torquing all the rear lugs and more likely, the rear spacers that are on the car!

Thanks for all the feedback per usual - great community on pelican.