Sway bar vs torsion bar question

[JoeyJoeJoe]

Hey Everyone, I am just finishing up my 85 targa turbo conversion (see pic) and want to get started on some suspension upgrades.

I am wondering if I can avoid upgrading my torsion bars and just upgrade my sway bars. I currently have 22mm welmeister sway bars (rear) and when I put these on it made a huge difference, but now its time for more.

my questions is this...do they come any thicker? all I can seem to find is 22mm sway bars nothing bigger??

also, if I upgrade by torsion bars will it help reduce body roll??

thanks

[RSTarga]

Yes they will help in roll and waht is in there now? Do you have a Turbo engine, in which case you need more torsion bar because of the extra weight and to keep the car from squatting.

[michael lang]

What specifically are you trying to accomplish? Each upgrade will benefit the car in one way or another but do not take the place of each other. Are you asking because you want to fix a problem or just upgrade to compliment the mods you have completed? No offense, I would think if you've done a turbo upgrade to your car, you'd want to stiffen the suspension to handle the extra power by going with stiffer torsion bars.

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by RSTarga

Yes they will help in roll and waht is in there now? Do you have a Turbo engine, in which case you need more torsion bar because of the extra weight and to keep the car from squatting.

^^ This.

Originally had an almost-stock 930/60 with 21/30's. The amount of squat was eye-opening when the 3DLZ kicked in - to the point where steering went so light in full boost you wondered if the front wheels were even on the ground any more. I considered coil-over helpers - but with a less brutal/more progressive powerband - like a decent modern hybrid K27 that makes 6 PSI in the manifold @ 2400 RPM - 21/30's are just fine for mostly-street and the squat isn't out of hand.

I can't imagine driving a stock chassis with smaller TB's at the back and a 3DLZ for long. That would not be fun.

[JoeyJoeJoe]

I have already installed adjustable sway bars and biltstein shocks and had it lowered and balanced and was wondering if larger sway bars are available to provide less roll and increase stiffness or if i need to go the torsion bar route.....i can install sway bars myself but not torsion bars.....as for the engine...it will be rebuilt next winter. Right now it is chipped with bypass and m&k

[burgermeister]

You realize weight transfer during acceleration, and thus front grip during acceleration, is almost entirely a function of wheelbase and CG height, right? TB size has fairly little to do with it.

Smart Racing (now Jerry Woods Enterprises) sells sway bars in 4 sizes, I think up to 30mm. They are very nice, much nicer than the low end Weltmeister bars.

But adjusting the arm length will give you quite a bit of stiffness - it's proportional to the arm length ^2, so if you go to 1/2 of the stock arm length (pretty sure the weltmeisters will let you do that), you will be 4x stiffer, even with the same bar diameter.

Careful going too stiff on the ARBs - at some point, the chassis mounting locations won't handle the forces anymore.

[lateapex911]

Yup Smart bars or Tarrets are the only well engineered options imo. ( in the sane range of options lol)
Go to Chuck Morelans Elephant Racing site and you can read up on his well informed recommended setups. Sways springs and dampers are all interrelated and his recommendations are good setups.
Also while you are at it get a set of WEVO ARB reinforcements to head pff any problems with the rear bar chassis mount

[winders]

Originally Posted by JoeyJoeJoe

I have already installed adjustable sway bars and biltstein shocks and had it lowered and balanced and was wondering if larger sway bars are available to provide less roll and increase stiffness or if i need to go the torsion bar route.....i can install sway bars myself but not torsion bars.....

Anti-roll bars control roll but have no effect on pitch. They are also used to adjust chassis balance. Adjustable anti-roll bars are easy to adjust.

Springs (e.g., torsion bars, coilovers) control both roll and pitch. They also affect chassis balance but you can't change them easily.

You don't mention what size torsion bars you have. If they are stock, you will want to go stiffer.

Scott

[winders]

Originally Posted by burgermeister

Smart Racing (now John Walker Enterprises) sells sway bars...

Do you mean "Jerry Woods Enterprises" (JWE)?

Some of the products that Smart Racing Products used to sell are now sold by JWE. But, the Smart Racing Products web site redirects to the Flying Lizards web site.

Scott

[911pcars]

You may want to explore added roll stiffness using coil-over springs at each corner. However, add'l chassis reinforcement and rigidity will be necessary, especially on earlier 911s; especially cabs and Targas. Generally, it's not good to have a more rigid suspension than the chassis. On some cars, heavier sway bars alone, while limiting roll, also increase ride harshness and limit needed suspension compliance.

Sherwood

[JoeyJoeJoe]

Right now I have just stock torsion bars

[burgermeister]

Originally Posted by winders

Do you mean "Jerry Woods Enterprises" (JWE)?

D'ouh! Yes I do. Brainfart on my part - thanks for the correction!

[lateapex911]

Originally Posted by winders

Do you mean "Jerry Woods Enterprises" (JWE)?

Some of the products that Smart Racing Products used to sell are now sold by JWE. But, the Smart Racing Products web site redirects to the Flying Lizards web site.

Scott

I was wondering about that! I thought Walker was for Minis...