Problem with Optima YTop - Is OptimaJim still around here?

[hcoles]

I have a RedTop in my 89 911 and it has worked fine for 10 years.
Just bought a YellowTop for another car, and I'm having issues.
From the store it would barely crank the engine, so I charged it.
After some driving around with no issues, it started to slow crank but not every time. If I kept at it, the car would finally start.
I put it on a special trickle charger "designed" for Optima overnight. The next day it started fine but then later would slow crank.
I later noticed that the date on the battery is May 2012, I bought the battery in Dec 2012. I suspect it has been recycled at the store if someone else had an issue or discharged while on the shelf.

I put the original battery back in after being watered up and trickle charged for a few days, and so far no issues, so I'm thinking something is wrong with the new YellowTop.

The store said come in we'll test it. I worry that somehow it will test fine as there are times when the YellowTop did crank the engine at normal speed or at least enough to quickly start.

[Targalid]

Disconnect the battery and do a load test at the store. The battery may be fine and you have corroded connections between the starter and the battery. For example, disconnect and clean the ground strap between the tranny and the car body, disconnect the negative cable in the engine compartment, clean and reconnect. Connections can look good and still have a thin oxide layer which prevents good current flow. If the battery is good after testing at the store, place the battery next to the starter with jumper cables and see if the starter works without issue. If this is true, you have diagnosed weak connections between the battery and the starter.

[hcoles]

Targalid,

Thanks for the note.
We now have the original battery back in and are monitoring if there is any sign of weak cranking for at least a few days.

The car is "new" so I'm not seeing any corrosion signs, but I'm aware of such can happen.

I figure if all is well with the old battery installed then the connections other than at the battery or other issues are not the issue.

The Optima is now on a special trickle charger.

I called Optima and the tech. said to do two things:

1 - take the Optima off the charger for 3 hours and measure the volts., should be 13.1

2 - leave it off the charger for 24 hours, should be 12.6 volts or better

If all that checks out have the store do a load test, as you mention.

[cobra935o]

I heard about 5-6 years they started making them somewhere else, and the quality has seemed to suffer.

[Sobastrace]

Optima moved all manufacturing to the Far east and they have had a significant increase in issues. One big problem is they now go from manufacturing to supply warehouse, to shipper, to boat, to customs, to distribution warehouse to retailer. By the time you get it the battery can be over 6 months old, and the battery will never be the same if it has not been treated to recharges during that time. Buy the freshest battery you can (saving the 6 months on a shelf, will add a year or two to the final life of the battery)

[roblav]

I've given up on Optima and now use Odyssey.

[hcoles]

I guess I'm giving them another chance, I have two other Optimas that I'm happy with.

Assuming we determine the battery is bad and the store wants to replace it, what is the maximum age I should accept? 2 months? Or should I say if it measures less than 12.6 volts I won't take it, either get another one or give me my money back or replace with a RedTop.

The general comment is they not providing a great experience. Assuming sitting on the shelf is the root cause the fact that I got a battery that could not be plugged in without issues, is a major issue. I'm now doing all sorts of charging and calling/etc. If they can't get the batteries to the hands of the end user without all this horsing around, then they need to change the process. Sears doesn't seem to have this issue.

If the battery is bad, then... things happen... that's another story but still not great.

[brads911sc]

the diehard platinum is basically the same battery type. last time i looked at them they werent older than a month or two.

[RWebb]

are you saying the diehard platinum is a spiral wound type??

it sure doesn't look like it

[NoLift911]

The Yellow top is a deep cycle battery. The Red top is what you should have purchased.

The yellow is typically used for media intensive applications in cars, large stereos, amps, video, gaming etc...for use when the car is not actually running/charging.

These are intended to be used up, until basically depleted then recharged with a high amp alternator back to full capacity. They do not do well with trickle charges.

The more this cycle is repeated - the better the battery will be, the better it will hold a deep cycle charge.

Your battery has not been fully charged, completely for a long period of time. For the occasional use car this is not the battery you want.

[OptimaJim]

hcoles, I'm sorry to hear about the problems you've been having with your battery. As our customer service center indicated, I would also be interested in any voltage levels you observed either before or after charging or while you were having issues. What size is this battery and what kind of charger are you using?

Spencer's claims about both our manufacturing location and the quality of our products are absolutely false. Unlike many other brands, we still manufacture all of our own products in our own facility and they are they only batteries produced there. We never re-label or re-spec our batteries for any of our retail partners. While the quality of our batteries has always been excellent, the batteries being produced in our new production facility are the best we have ever made. You can view a video of our production facility here.

Because our batteries have a very low self-discharge rate, they can sit for extended periods of time, well beyond six months, without suffering any ill effects. However, when any battery is discharged below 12.4 volts and left sitting in that state, sulfation will begin to form in the battery, which diminishes both capacity and lifespan. That makes a quality battery maintenance device an excellent investment for any vehicle that doesn't see regular use.

Our RedTops are designed and warrantied for SLI (starting/lighting/igntion) applicatons, while our YellowTops are designed and warrantied for both starting and deep-cycle applications. Either battery will work just fine in vehicles that see occasional use and they can both be treated and charged just like regular lead-acid batteries in most situations. Like any other lead-acid battery, the shallower the discharge cycle, the more cycles a battery will be able to deliver, although YellowTops are more resilient to deep-discharges, than SLI batteries.

Since Parker suggested deeply-discharged batteries should be fully-recharged with an alternator, I want to caution everyone that any battery deeply-discharged to the point that a vehicle needs a jump-start, should be fully-recharged with a battery charger as soon as possible. Most alternators are designed to maintain batteries, not recharged deeply-discharged batteries. Asking that task of an alternator can lead to a cycle of dead batteries and jump-starts, until either the battery or alternator fails. If anyone has any questions about our products, I'll do my best to answer them.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
OPTIMA® Batteries (optimabatteries) on Pinterest

[hcoles]

Hello Jim,
I the mean time I called Optima and the guy was very patient listening to my story. He said to charge the battery then take voltage readings at 3 hours and 24 hours after disconnecting from the charger. Since I was instructing my son to take the readings we didn't hit exactly the specified timing but we got 12.75 vdc after 1 hour, 24 hours 12.5 vdc, 48 more hours 12.47. Now measures 12.16vdc after about 5 days off the charger sitting in the garage. I'm thinking I'm at the point of returning the battery for a full refund, they supply me with a new YTop (what voltage should it read?) or get a RTop and some money back. In the mean time we put the stock Honda battery back in and son is reporting no issues. What do you suggest? Thanks very much for your assistance.
-Henry

[Joe Bob]

I've had a Yellow for over 10 years. Was my daily driver until three years ago. I now have a tender on it when it's parked.

I've killed it flat 5-6 times and it has come back each time. Steady performer at just under 13v.

[hcoles]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

I've had a Yellow for over 10 years. Was my daily driver until three years ago. I now have a tender on it when it's parked.

I've killed it flat 5-6 times and it has come back each time. Steady performer at just under 13v.

Thanks for the note, that's what I would expect. I think I got a bad one (it happens), we'll see what Jim says.

[bluesky]

Originally Posted by OptimaJim

hcoles, I'm sorry to hear about the problems you've been having with your battery. As our customer service center indicated, I would also be interested in any voltage levels you observed either before or after charging or while you were having issues. What size is this battery and what kind of charger are you using?

Spencer's claims about both our manufacturing location and the quality of our products are absolutely false. Unlike many other brands, we still manufacture all of our own products in our own facility and they are they only batteries produced there. We never re-label or re-spec our batteries for any of our retail partners. While the quality of our batteries has always been excellent, the batteries being produced in our new production facility are the best we have ever made. You can view a video of our production facility here.

Because our batteries have a very low self-discharge rate, they can sit for extended periods of time, well beyond six months, without suffering any ill effects. However, when any battery is discharged below 12.4 volts and left sitting in that state, sulfation will begin to form in the battery, which diminishes both capacity and lifespan. That makes a quality battery maintenance device an excellent investment for any vehicle that doesn't see regular use.

Our RedTops are designed and warrantied for SLI (starting/lighting/igntion) applicatons, while our YellowTops are designed and warrantied for both starting and deep-cycle applications. Either battery will work just fine in vehicles that see occasional use and they can both be treated and charged just like regular lead-acid batteries in most situations. Like any other lead-acid battery, the shallower the discharge cycle, the more cycles a battery will be able to deliver, although YellowTops are more resilient to deep-discharges, than SLI batteries.

Since Parker suggested deeply-discharged batteries should be fully-recharged with an alternator, I want to caution everyone that any battery deeply-discharged to the point that a vehicle needs a jump-start, should be fully-recharged with a battery charger as soon as possible. Most alternators are designed to maintain batteries, not recharged deeply-discharged batteries. Asking that task of an alternator can lead to a cycle of dead batteries and jump-starts, until either the battery or alternator fails. If anyone has any questions about our products, I'll do my best to answer them.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
OPTIMA® Batteries (optimabatteries) on Pinterest

Jim, you mentioned using a battery maintenance device....which brand would you recommend? I've seen several "automatic battery float chargers for wet or gel-cells" that say they are not for use with AGM type batteries. I was afraid to use them with my 2 yellow-tops that see minimal use. Any suggestions? thanks

[Joe Bob]

I have two of these....one regular as shown and the junior....

I agree on the full charged battery....hard on the alternator.

[hcoles]

While we are waiting for Jim to comment, no worries.

I should have mentioned I use, for topping off and maint. for my Optima batteries, a BatteryMINDer 12118.
The 12118 is supposed to have the required Optima output.
The BatteryMINDer people don't offer this model any more, don't know why.
Is there something wrong with using it?

[OptimaJim]

Henry, I responded to your PM and included my phone number, in case you have any issues getting warranty service on your battery. bluesky, because we sell our own chargers and maintainers, I'm not allowed to specifically endorse other brands. However, I can say that we generally recommend chargers that are microprocessor-controlled and have specific settings for AGM batteries. We do not recommend “gel” or even “AGM/gel” charger settings, as they may not fully-charge non-gel batteries and could damage them over time. We also don't recommend charging our batteries at a rate that exceeds 10 amps. That should give you plenty of quality options to choose from. If you guys have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
OPTIMA® Batteries (optimabatteries) on Pinterest

[manbridge 74]

Jim, thanks for posting to clear up some Optima myths. I bought the "made in Asia" line that I heard on another forum and apologies if I've spread it around here.

That said, I believe some of the confusion as to old vs new red tops might be due to the fact that in 1997 my red top was 900CCA if I recall and the ones I see now are around 700CCA. That 97 battery was still functioning as of 2009 when I sold the car. After multiple discharges and using antiquated chargers on it. Perhaps the smaller ones are less tolerant of abuse/neglect?

[OptimaJim]

Not a problem manbridge 74. There are quite a few batteries produced in Asia and ironically enough, while we get raked over the coals sometimes for producing our own batteries in a facility in Mexico, those brands with third-party manufacturers in Asia often get a free pass.

Our Group 75/25, 25 and 35 RedTop batteries are all rated at 720 cold cranking amps, while all our other RedTops are rated at 800 cold cranking amps. CCA is a BCI standard, which is created by members of the industry- essentially, we are part of a group that created our own rules for measuring batteries.

The difference is in how manufacturers and brands decide to rate a battery based on those standards. Our parent company, Johnson Controls, tends to be very conservative in just about everything they do and that holds true with how we rate our batteries. This is just a rough example, but if one company can get XX out of 100 batteries to test at a given CCA, they will slap that number on the label and send the battery on it's way. JCI tends to have much higher standards and while our batteries routinely test much higher than their BCI ratings, we prefer to under-promise and over-deliver. Some may be rated at a lower number now than what they were when we weren't owned by JCI, but only because of differences in testing methodology, not the product itself.

Jim McIlvaine
eCare Manager, OPTIMA Batteries, Inc.
OPTIMA® Batteries (optimabatteries) on Pinterest