Not here to demystify caliper rebuilding. It's a pretty straightforward job. The problems you'll run into revolve around stuck pistons and minimum charges at the plating shops.

The advantage of zinc plating is, zinc is a sacrificial coating. ATE used zinc at the onset (vs. the common misconception of cad). The entire caliper body is plated, even the bore. As a sacrificial coating, the zinc will start to take the corrosion before the metal will. We often see this as white specs on the finish surface as the calipers age. The plating in the bore helps keep the two raw steel surfaces from contacting. Your caliper have lasted 30-40 years now because of the zinc. When we replate some of these calipers, they come out like new because of the zinc that was applied back when they were manufactured. The quality of the steel can be a big issue here as well. 356 calipers are amazing, while the following L-Calipers (early 911 rears) can be problematic. All ATE calipers are yellow zinc BTW.

Years back I did all my own caliper rebuilding (which is how I got started doing this) and, here's what I ran into with a number of the builds; after a few short years, there would be a sticking or pulling issue again. Here what I found out and believe will help you DIY guys:

1. Don't hone the bore. Yup, you read that right. They sell brake hones and, I used those in the past but I believe they are one of the main problems with home-based rebuilds. Honing creates a fresh "steel-on-steel" surface in a hydraulic system that is "open". Water can and will get into your system. This is why we ask you to change your fluid annually. Quick... I'll give you 5 seconds to tell me what happens when water and fresh steel meet each other (no, the answer is not "a 914"). ;)

I you feel the need to hone the bore you have bigger issues (whether you care to admit it here or not). You have rust building up around the seal flanges. Paint all you want, say that zinc is "bling" etc. I've pretty much heard it all but, that rust isn't going away. It will come back in a few short years and you'll be doing this again. So don't hone to bare metal and put them back together which leads me to number 2...

2. Google "Metal Plating" in your area. Again, your calipers were probably sticking because of a combination of old fluid build up above the inner bore seal and "rust". You know this to be the case the minute you looked in that bore after you popped the piston out. You cannot hone it away and you cannot pray it away. This will be your problem area in the years to come if you simply wire brush and rattle can your calipers. Find a competent shop to remove all of the rust and re-plate your calipers... Remember, zinc is a sacrificial coating. Your calipers survived this long because of it. Yes, you can purchase el cheapo mass-rebuilder calipers at any auto parts store for less than you can get them from a Porsche specialty retailer. I can get them from my supplier for about $35.00. They then sell them for around $70.00 each. They vibratory polish the finish off the caliper bodies and the fasteners and they give them an oil bath and sell them to you. They turn to rust in a few short months when the oil wears off.

A quick word about paint. It really doesn't do great job of protecting your calipers. It comes off with things like brake cleaner and brake fluid... odd. If you want to pretend you have Big Reds on your car, spray them "after" the zinc plating. Use VHT high temp caliper paint and cure them for 1 hour at 200 deg. It will still mar and smudge the minute you get a drop of brake fluid on it.

We offer the zinc plating service for $30.00 per caliper if you can't find it locally or, if they have a minim charge (which I eluded to earlier and... most do). USPS Flat Rate Boxes make the world smaller and cheaper.

You have to stop this rust or it will return fairly quickly. Your engine makes you go. Your brakes make you stop. You would not rebuild your engine with rusty parts and you wouldn't let $60-120 stand in the way of you rebuilding your engine properly. You don't do that to the engine because, it costs a lot of money to rebuild an engine and, it's not a job you'd like to do twice if it fails. If your engine fails, your car stops. If your brakes fail... your car doesn't stop. Think about it.

You have two caliper bodies to rebuild for your car sitting on a table in front of you. One was zinc plated and the other was wire brushed; which one would you select? OK, now we've pretty much established that it's a price issue and you don't want to pay to have them done right. :D

3. Stuck Pistons. If you have a stuck piston, you have a rust issue (broken record, I know... but this stuff is rather simple). To remove stuck pistons you need fluid. Fluids do not compress where air does. We use water but a grease gun can work, as mentioned herein, it's a messy task but, it gets the job done. Just make sure you clean all of the fluid passages with brake cleaner before you send the off to the plater.

Happy to help with any questions guys and, sorry... while this is a rather simple DIY job, there a some "Basics" that most people ignore (like removing all of the rust, without honing the bore). Those who know me know I'm passionate about is and, that I'm always eager to help. This is not a shill post. I know a LOT of customers that we've helped through their own restoration process and I'm "way" happy for them because I feel like they got the right product in the end. They saved some coin as well. That said, when you look at seal kits and minimum plating charges and time... I "know" we offer a great service at a great price.

Advice from the expert, free of charge and ignored at your peril.

What material is the o-ring between the caliper halves?

Rubber. :D

Hey Eric, thanks for this thorough description. I didn't know that about the sacrificial zinc coating. I learned something here, and I'll be sending you two SC rear calipers with rebuild kits this week. :)

I have a pair of Carrera calipers that look to have the original zinc coating in good shape that I plan to install the rebuild kit, but if I see any problems during the rebuild, you'll be getting that pair too. :)

way to go. congrats!

Hi there Eric, I have 4 calipers I am rebuilding, I must confess, I am very much on the side of doing stuff myself more as it is a hobby and the 3 days I might spend rebuilding calipers is actually a significant part of the fun.

I have a good (albeit insane) plater locally (I am in Canada), but my only worry is those wretched O rings between the caliper halves.

Do you source those for us amateur guys or is there a source you can direct us to?

Thanks and your advice is utmostly worthwhile, I was all set to hone the bores after plating, I will follow your advice...

Dennis

YES go for it, I did but had some "adult supervision" and the great advice on this forum. Doing the brakes on a 911 is the classic "while your at it" kind of job. Started out trying to free up a frozen piston on the front right passenger side caliper. About a month, 4 rotors, pads, new brake lines, split and zinc coated calipers and front wheel bearings sensors and careful bleeding later finally got the the Porsche to stop with the original ATE calipers.

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Eric is the only way to go. They don't get rebuilt. They are restored. The caliper comes back better than new. Pulled my fronts off. Sent them to Eric and got them back a week later. Nice new yellow zinc plated and bolt right on. I sprayed mine with clear gloss VHT caliper paint, baked them in the oven at 200 degrees before putting mine back on. This added process makes the calipers easier to stay clean and new looking for a long time and the brake dust just wipes right off. $236.00 for each pair (two calipers) F or R. While painting is not good, a few coats of clear VHT over new plating doesn't hurt. It's just to keep the plating clean and new looking longer.


http://i1296.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7f5ecfea.jpg

By the way, Thanks again Eric:D

Looks Great Bob!

Caliper 1/2 Seals are at the bottom of this page...

http://www.pmbperformance.com/calipers.html

Eric, beautiful work! I'll be sending these out to you this week (rear SC calipers). :)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1358350757.jpg

Your workbench is too neat! :D

Thanks Craig! We'll keep an eye out for them. Remember, new address (on the web site).

HAHA I hear that a lot! ;) Ok, I'll make sure to get the info from your site, and will call when I send them. :)

They're officially on their way to you Eric! Triple boxed.. :)

- Craig_D

(move the blue needle nose pliers one space over to the right)

;)

Meh.... Learn it, you will love it and then with the saved $$ take yr g/f out to dinner (or you wife... or your Mom)
It's not THAT difficult if you have :
1. Lot's of time
2. Some kind of soap to wash your hands afterwards.
3. compressed air
4. internet: for advice, questions, pictures , testimonials, complaints.

When you hear the "POP" of the seal breaking it is worth the price of admission.

ps. Zinc looks good, real good, I am jealous, I did not split my brakes & have them freshly zinc-ed, maybe next time.
I wish I had done that, besides protecting the caliper, the zinc looks great.

Not meaning to hijack, but this is a timely thread for me as I started stripping my calipers and found problems. Some questions:

Front aluminum 'S' calipers (aluminum bodies, steel pistons) - What's the "save" when the pistons are rusted and pitted? Obviously need new pistons, but can those be simply dropped back into the caliper bore if there is minimum wear (i.e. - no rub through the anodize layer)?

anodizing, cad plating, zinc plating, hard chrome plating, alodine, and painting are all carry-overs from the aircraft industry to prevent corrosion. cool factor is high with plating and it is factory but in the end, a rattle can of what ever paint you have on the shelf will do to slow down the ever present rust. Eric's plating is the best defense on them steel calipers (and look great). Remember "Proper Prep Prevents Poor Pitting Pitfalls in the Plating"

No problem... Just about every S-Caliper we restore has bad pistons. To counteract dissimilar metals back in the day, ATE plated the pistons with a nickel plating. As these cars aged and sat, water entered the system, gathered around the rubber and rust would form around the bore seals. Here's what I would do in your situation (if you do not plan to have them re-anodized):

1. Buy 4 DuroAno pistons from our host here. We developed this piston after restoring 930 calipers. Every set of later Brembo calipers with aluminum pistons were perfect internally. To prep the pistons for the rebuild we would simply wipe them off with a soft cloth and wait for the caliper bodies to come back from plating. The answer for the dissimilar metal issues is... No dissimilar metals! The hard anodized coating makes them harder than their heavy steel and stainless steel counter parts. You'll never have this problem again.

2. With a 11mm flare wrench, remove the compensating lines and swap them from one caliper to the other. This will flip the caliper orientation and swap the pattern in the bore. you will notice that there is light scuffing in the bore cavity on the "top" currently. Switching the lines will put that on the bottom. Big deal? Not really but, while you're in there, you might as well. We do this on all our restorations.

3. Swap your knockback mechanisms from your old pistons to your new ones. Watch for the brass barrels under the knockback mechanisms and make sure you don't lose them. Hose them down with brake cleaner and make sure everything is clean. You can also opt to remove them at this time.

4. Put the dust boots on the pistons and butter the inside of the bore and the dust boot flange with assembly lube. If you do not have assembly lube in the dust boot flange it will be nearly impossible to get it to seat properly.

5. Install the bleeders and position the pistons so the notch is at 20 degrees facing the bleeders. Contrary to popular belief, you do not need any special tools or gauges to do this. Drawn an imaginary line down the center of the pad cavity and position the bottom notch on this centerline, again, with the open face pointing toward the bleeders.

The rest should be self explainitory. I would encourage you to have the calipers re-anodized at this time. These are very valuable calipers and will become even moreso as time marches on. You can probably see corrosion in the pad cavity and there is usually some pitting around the fluid inlet flanges as well. Stop it now while you have them apart. If not, use those tips for a clean rebuild.

Hope that helps.

E.

Would of loved to have had the time to get them sent away to be zinc coated, they look really good!
Track day next week, I hope the factory rotors hold up and my lines turn up :/
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/f...ps63b2c929.jpg

I did all mine a few years back and mode the bonehead move of reinstalling two of the calipers on the wrong side with bleeder screws upside down and for the life of me could not get the air out of the system. So make sure you get the caliper installed on the correct wheel with the bleeder screw up.

Thanks to Eric for his help in this thread and for the taking the time to field a couple calls to him with some pretty basic questions.

I ordered the front set from his today and will send the cores to him in a few days. I'm looking forward to getting the front back together.

(Eric, thanks too for helping me with the bleeders on the new calipers; the extra help to make this an out-of-the-box-and-on-the-car project is a huge help--I'm still trying to learn.)

Echo thanks to Eric for his expert advice, graciously offered in this forum and on the phone. He's a great source for services and specialty parts!

I just got my calipers back from PMB. Think they did a nice job?

Before/After:


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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1365885643.jpg

Looks awesome!! He did just as good a job on mine. Eric is THE MAN when it comes to refurbishing and rebuilding brakes.

The PMB process seems complete but how often are the pistons rusted or the chambers? I can get a local metal finisher to do the zinc plating for only $70. Do they have a special way of plating?

Not very often, only in cars that have been sitting for years or an extremely wet/humid climate. Water will sit at the lowest point in your system (the piston bottom)...but if you have periodically bled the system or changed fluid not a real issue. It is only a problem if serious pitting develops (barn find/extended sitting).
Normally you will find some discoloration, a green pad hand polishing will fix that on both the piston and the piston well in the body.
I just did that on my 30 year old SC...polished the pistons and wells, new seals, pads, flex lines, rotors and go...I could care less about the 'finish' to the exterior. Great brakes.
The 'bling' does not do a damn thing to stop your car. Do what you want to there but that has nothing to do with efficiency.

How often? Almost 100% of the time. It (rust and old fluid along the piston edge and along the bore seal) is what causes calipers to stick. Plain and simple. If you don't plate them it will come back and they will stick again in a couple years.

If you can get them plated for $70.00 do it... I encourage DIY projects. We plate the calipers for customers for $60.00. We've even talked a number of customers through the process and helped with elusive caliper 1/2 seals etc. Ask around. Perhaps Tom Viers can weigh in or Warren Olds who did an "amazing" job building his calipers

There's nothing special here... it's not like we're making a killing at it and ripping people off. Add it up:

Plating = $70.00
Kits = $50.00
Plating Fasteners = $16.00
Caliper 1/2 Seals = $4-8.00
Coating for piston tops = $10.00
Proper Ribe Bit Set so you don't screw up the NLA fasteners = $30.00
That's $180.00 in materials alone...

*Time and labor to disassemble, remove insanely stuck pistons (that most people can't do without ruining them with ViseGrips), not strip the fasteners = $??.??

*Time and labor to assemble, torque and pack warranted calipers = $??.??

*Cost of tape, boxes and packing material = $??.??

Bottom line:

Some people are DIYer's and we applaud that (that's how this business got started). Call anytime for tips and advice. We even have caliper 1/2 seals and obscure Ribe bits to help you on your path.

Some people see the value of their own time and rather not mess with them. A lot of people actually. :D

BTW: You can order PMB calipers here from your favorite and ever so handsome host now. ;)

My 86 Carrera was sitting for 4-5 years waiting to be fixed or being fixed. The brakes were very worn and I am now replacing the rotors and maybe calipers. I have not checked. Ohio is humid in the summer. The brakes work but not as good as when I bought it. I lack experience in determining when to replace.

Just rebuild them but do it right... like you said, it's not rocket science. Be careful what you read online. You don't want to simply "Scotchbrite" your bores and pistons. Especially if you have a local plater that will do it for $70.00

Two calipers on the bench in front of you. One has all of the zinc plating worn off and you've Scotchbrited the bores and pistons. The other has a fresh coat of ATE factory yellow zinc protecting the outside and the bores where the steel pistons meet the walls of the caliper...

Which one would you use? OK... so now we've determined you "want" to do it right but, most don't (as we've just seen). Would you skimp on engine parts in a $10,000 911 engine build? These are brake calipers. I'd argue that they're more important than anything on the car.

I see hundreds of calipers per week. I have never seen a stuck piston or a sticking caliper that "wasn't" caused by rust. The previous poster is simply wrong (sorry). When your brakes begin to fail it is almost 100% a rust and grunge issue.

ATE used zinc over cad because it's a better rust protectant.

So... get some kits on order from our host and check in here for info on how to disassemble your Carrera Calipers.

The most difficult part will be the fasteners... THEY SUCK. Big M9 fasteners with a very small and inadequate Ribe R6 head. Make sure you use the proper bit to "HOLD" the fastener, do not attempt to "TURN" the fastener with that bit, use LOTS of heat and a 14mm deep well on a long breaker bar (not an air wrench) so you can feel what you're doing. If you ruin them, there are no replacements. If you'd like to waste a couple of days, search the Interweb thingy for 65 and 70mm M9 fasteners. Report back.

Happy to help.

E.

Shea is right if you wait until brakes 'fail' catastrophically ...if you do a rebuild periodically then it's not an issue.
I've been rebuilding/refurbing brakes for 40 years and never sent a set off to a second party and have never had a set 'fail'. Like in most things in life it depends upon timing.
If they haven't 'failed' catastrophically ...and I've rebuilt after minor leaks, then try them yourself. Like he said, it isn't rocket science. Triumph, Jaguar, Porsche, Mercedes whatever, about the same.

As a DIYer, brake rebuilding is a nice project but i can never restore to original as Shea can, also, the PITA factor is way down! well worth the price to send them in, thanks Eric for having this service

I rebuilt my rears with freshly plated caliper halves from Eric. He took the time to talke me thru the details of the process over the phone. Even shared the tricks of the trade on how to remove those stuck pistons. Couldn't be happier!

Tom Viers

Question: Can you zinc plate your calipers without splitting them? If so, are there any major disadvantages?

Thanks,

Ryan

Splitting them is not a big deal. There are rubber O rings between the halves. I wouldn't plate them without splitting them.

In theory, yes.

Problems? There is acid involved in the plating process. It won't hurt the seals but, if the calipers don't drain properly, the acid can make things nasty.

As Tom mentioned, the seals are readily available. Also as Tom mentioned, we'll be happy to talk you through it.

I would simply split them. It makes things a lot cleaner and easier.

Quick embarrassing question: the rear caliper has 2 19'' bolts to the hub, my question is: there is very little space to put in big wrench to remove it. Is there a trick or a special wrench to remove this lower bolt? I just rebuilt the fronts and now I need to rebuild the rears because after releasing the hand brakes, the brake light on the dashboard is still lid up and it makes squeaky noise. I took a peek at the pistons earlier, they look to be rusted on the exposed portion.
Thx

Try a deep offset box wrench on the rear caliper bolts.

The hand brake operates a separate drum brake mechanism inside the "hat" of the rear rotor, it does not use the calipers - but it sounds like the calipers need to be rebuilt anyway.

Thanks franc. I will go out and buy a set tomorrow at HBF and try it out.

I think it's time to rebuild the rear calipers too. I will adjust the hand brake also.

Many thanks again.

I posted on this thread at the very beginning and stated that I had rebuilt my own but would go the PMB the next time around. That's exactly what I did and they look great. Bit to mention that the price is pretty reasonable and a lot less than I was expecting.

The most noticeable thing on my car was that after I installed my new PMB brakes, not only did the braking change dramatically, but I also noticed that the car would not hold still at a red light (meaning that if the street had the very slightest incline, the car would roll without the brakes on). This is because the new brakes had zero percent drag. I never thought my original brakes dragged but the new setup proved that they were dragging a little bit. This also made it much easier to manually push the car from the driveway to the garage with no effort (i.e., no brakes dragging).

That said, here are my brakes from PMB:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434782856.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1434782906.jpg