Wheel Well undercarriage color for '86 930 (RoW)?

luial · 07-25-2012, 07:18 PM

I need help with my 930 Turbo restoration.
Original color is Guards Red. When I bought the car, came in original color but obviously most of it was repainted.

The undercarriage looks repainted and the red paint is peeling off.

Upon inspection it looks like original (undercarriage) color is black.
Notice in the right most, there is a small spot that shows metal (stripped off). My painting guy says original is black since after black the primer is seen (beige) then you can see metal.

Would anyone know how the car came out new?

I would also like to know about the rest of the undercarriage (paint color).

Thank you.

Mitch Leland · Mitch Leland's Garage

luial,

I know this same subject was kicked around on the Turbo Look site. If I remember right the consensus was the fender wells were done in black. Don't hold me to this...

onboost · 07-26-2012, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch Leland

luial,

I know this same subject was kicked around on the Turbo Look site. If I remember right the consensus was the fender wells were done in black. Don't hold me to this...

That is incorrect.. the tub including wheel wells should be the same color as the body..Porsches have been this way since at least 73,, possibly 72.

If the read is peeing to reveal another color underneath, then that is what this car was painted originally.. unless that was a respray/under coat job as well.

You may want to check some other areas on the car ( front of tub near gauges, under dash, etc..) to determine the original color.

Canada Kev · 07-26-2012, 06:02 AM

You sure that's not just black/dark grey undercoating that's showing as the paint flakes off?

luial · 06:29 AM

Thank you for all the replies

Quote:

Originally Posted by onboost

That is incorrect.. the tub including wheel wells should be the same color as the body..Porsches have been this way since at least 73,, possibly 72.

If the read is peeing to reveal another color underneath, then that is what this car was painted originally.. unless that was a respray/under coat job as well.

Are you sure about this?

The red paint is flaking off to easily. It doesn't look like the factory did it.
The car is definitely guards red in color as seen from the factory color label

and from other "hidden" parts of the car (engine bay, front hood area)
Just wondering if the previous owner(s) did a respray and undercoat why is there no color beneath the black undercoat I see now.
Here is a slightly clearer pic of the "chipping" my guy did to show the original color/s underneath (right bottom corner)

Is there no exception from Porsche? Are all cars starting MY '73 really in body color?

onboost · 07-26-2012, 06:51 AM

I can tell you then that somethings going on in that and/or the wheel wells. They are body color from 73> There may be some prior repair, or the car may have been painted a couple of times.

Btw, that color is India Red.. very close to guards, and in some cases there may have been some kind of overlap with the names & code numbers.

Also, I'm not sure what the car looks like overall.. but both India and Guards red are a lot brighter than any of the areas being shown.

redridge · 07-26-2012, 07:58 AM

are those nuts and bolts in red also?

Bob Kontak · Bob Kontak's Garage

Here is a similar thread

Just cleaned up wheel wells and need info on color

luial · 09:29 PM

Thanks for the correction on the color. I know there are many variations of the guards red and indischrot. Never knew mine's India Red.
You are right about the shade of red here (underchassis). The roof that has the factory (unretouched) paint is brighter and more red-orange.

Anyway, my goal here is to find out how the factory did it for my car. If you guys say its body color for 73&up cars then it looks like I have to stick to that rule for my restoration work.

Yes, redridge they are painted red also (in my car).

javadog · 07-26-2012, 10:34 AM

I bought an '86 turbo new, in 1986. It was painted red on the bottom. To expand on that, it was more like overspray from the painting of the exterior panels, than a solid coat of red. It is somewhat like the trunk, in that the inner fenders were painted red and the closer you got to the center of the trunk floor, the thinner the paint got.

JR

onboost · 07-26-2012, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javadog

I bought an '86 turbo new, in 1986. It was painted red on the bottom. To expand on that, it was more like overspray from the painting of the exterior panels, than a solid coat of red. It is somewhat like the trunk, in that the inner fenders were painted red and the closer you got to the center of the trunk floor, the thinner the paint got.

JR

Excellent description.. that's exactly how they were/are!

aoncurly · aoncurly's Garage

According to a Porsche 911 (model years 78-83, but I doubt that it had changed in your model year) parts catalog, "027" is Guards Red.

KTL · 07-26-2012, 02:34 PM

My car is guards red too. I mean indischrot. When I wanted to get some bumpers painted, everybody kept telling me the code came back India red. Point is, I agree guards red has been used somewhat universally to describe the "typical" Porsche red.

My underside is greyish-white where the red overspray didn't hit it. That greyish-white stuff is the body schutz rubberized undercoating stuff. So what i'm saying is that if the wheel wells are not the color of the whitish undercoating, then its actual black paint that the car was painted. I also agree with the comment on the trunk area. My trunk area is not solid red. There's a lot of whitish (primer, not undercoating) spots in the middle near the fuel tank that barely got sprayed red.

My opinion is, don't let that indischrot sticker fool you into thinking "Well there's a sticker on there that says red. So it must originally be red." Reason I say that is, look at the indischrot sticker. See that part number? All somebody had to do is go to the Porsche dealer and ask for that part number. Prest chango, now your car is "officially" red because it has a factory Porsche sticker on it?

javadog · 07-26-2012, 02:49 PM

Indischrot and Guards Red are the same thing. It's a long story and I don't have time to type it. G1 was the code in 1986 but 027 will get you the same thing. A turbo would have had G1 G1 on the option sticker. There's a newer version of Guards Red (2005-on?) that may have a little difference.

The various components of the paint change color over time. It's always best to match what it looks like "now" on the car when you paint a panel, as opposed to what the formula says it should have looked like 20 or 30 years ago, before it was exposed to the elements. People have paint match problems on a repair and blame it on the wrong color code, when in reality it's probably something else. Don't forget that paint is dIfferent now. In 1986, Guards Red was probably a single stage Glasurit paint. At some point, we got case coat/clear coat paint, water-based paint and other abominations.

Anyway, I don't see evidence of repainting under the fenders of this car. Porsche used a couple different undercoating treatments in addition to the paint overspray, cosmoline, etc. that you'll find underneath these cars. They weren't real concerned with the bottom of the car, the inside of the trunk, etc. Some of it is pretty sloppy workmanship.
JR

luial · 07-26-2012, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javadog

I bought an '86 turbo new, in 1986. It was painted red on the bottom. To expand on that, it was more like overspray from the painting of the exterior panels, than a solid coat of red. It is somewhat like the trunk, in that the inner fenders were painted red and the closer you got to the center of the trunk floor, the thinner the paint got.

JR

Thanks JR! This is exactly the kind of info I'm looking for.

luial · 07-26-2012, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTL

My opinion is, don't let that indischrot sticker fool you into thinking "Well there's a sticker on there that says red. So it must originally be red." Reason I say that is, look at the indischrot sticker. See that part number? All somebody had to do is go to the Porsche dealer and ask for that part number. Prest chango, now your car is "officially" red because it has a factory Porsche sticker on it?

Wow, this is really making me confused.
Car is definitely "originally" red.
Please see my earlier post describing the other areas of it.

javadog · 07-26-2012, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luial

Wow, this is really making me confused.
Car is definitely "originally" red.
Please see my earlier post describing the other areas of it.

Don't worry, you can ignore all of that. You have a red 930, no question.

JR

Canada Kev · 07-26-2012, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by javadog

...In 1986, Guards Red was probably a single stage Glasurit paint. At some point, we got case coat/clear coat paint, water-based paint and other abominations....

I believe the change to base/clear Guards (or India, whatever...) Red happened in the mid-90s right near the end of the 993 series.

shanfarrar · 07-26-2012, 08:14 PM

It's a long story and I don't have time to type it

KTL · 07-26-2012, 11:18 PM

Have your guy do some chipping elsewhere and see what else he finds (or hopefully doesn't). I hope all that crap I typed before is indeed incorrect. Just pointing out that it's not that hard to change the color of a car from an outward appearance. When you start looking in the harder to reach areas, that will tell you the truth.