Just looked at an 88 coupe, need opinions on its flaws

[r-mm]

Just drove a very nice and honest 88 coupe in GP White / Dark Navy. I've never seen this combo in person and didn't think i'd like it but it was very handsome. The car had a few flaws, none terminal, but they're things I'm less familiar with and need some opinions on cost and severity...

1. I'll start with the weirdest one... The instrument bezels were rusty!? See pics. Has anyone seen this before? I've yet to run the carfax to check that the car was not submerged in the ocean at some point but the remainder of the interior looks age appropriate and very well cared for without being suspiciously perfect.





2. The sunroof and P/S window are inop. Seller did not have any ideas on cause or remedy. I imagine these are common problems - any common remedies? Both switches for the P/S window appear to be not stock.



3. There was a small amount of bubbling by the front bumper accordions ( hard to see in pic). I understand this is common. How serious is the repair?



4. Seller told me the front windshield whistles on the hwy a bit but doesn't leak, recommended replacing the seal. The windshield was stamped Pilkington so i'm presuming it was replaced at some point and the seal was not perfectly reinstalled. How much does the 964 swap cost and are all the parts available new?

5. This is not a flaw but personal preference. The car is GP white with matching 16" Fuchs and black stone guards. I don't like either - would prefer no stone guards and black center Fuchs. The fuchs (which I understand were an at-cost option) can be sold or painted - how hard is it to remove stone guards and is the paint typically non-matching below due to age?

[Canada Kev]

I know you'll likely get a PPI done by someone that has knowledge of these cars, but for your questions, here's my opinion...

I suspect the gauge bezels probably are rusted from excess humidity or perhaps proximity to oceans. Where did the car come from?

I can't speak for the windows or S/R. A newer switch might have a more matte finish as it hasn't been worn from use and being touched by people's hands. The usual electrical troubleshooting methods will likely solve these two issues.

Bubbling by the accordions? Never heard of it. However, the bumpers are aluminum. To repair, they'd need to be removed and the corrosion fixed and then painted.

Regarding the windshield, instead of going with a 964 type which may or may not be easy to do, by all accounts, the 993 version seems to be relatively easy.

Wheels: Paint 'em. The shark fin decal can be removed, but the surrounding area will need to be polished as the paint under will not have been exposed to the elements. With the white paint, any oxidation will likely be less obvious, but the polish will still need to be done to make it invisible.


Good luck!

[Guardsred911]

I would think that the rust on the bezel's is a strong indication of a leaking seal somewhere in the glass/seals that let in moisture..... perhaps also supported by the current owners comments that the winsheild whistles.... I have seen similiar issues on older BMW's where the owner left it outside for a long time and water made it's way into the sunroof seals (almost identicle to the Porsche seals of the same era)...

It might not be too much to get the seller to agree to let you pop the passenger side panel and see why the window isn't working. Could just be an old motor, or it could have leaked something fierce and ruined the motor, and caused rust on the inside of the door, as well as perhaps the moisture issues. Not a deal breaker, but good to know. (assuming you know how to do this...)

[Justin@Athens]

Without knowing more about the car, I'll just say this: Buy the car you want, not the car you wish you had/can afford/is a good deal. If you want some projects this car looks fine for you, but I promise you that it would be much cheaper, less time consuming, and less of a headache to buy a cleaner example that really meets your standards and "configuration."

[r-mm]

I'm not giving the full story, but so far this car is the one I want and if it checks out in a PPI, a good deal for the amount of recept receipts and records available. I'm only checking in with you all here to make sure there are no BIG red flags...

[MBAtarga]

What you have posted about is cosmetics only. What is the history of the engine and trans? Has the top end been rebuilt? Some Carreras have a valve guide issue that cause excess oil burning/smoke. What about suspension - CV joints - shocks - etc?

[r-mm]

I didn't post much on the mechanical condition because I'm more confident on this based on the car's history / records than I am with these aesthetic issues that probably wouldn't be discussed much in a PPI, which I will of course get if I pursue the car.

[80-911SC]

A good PPI will talk about the aesthetic side of the car also ....most of what you pointed out would not be a big turn off to most here .. but Justin did have a point ... YOU need to be happy with what you pick out ... yes things can be changed but they take time and money so keep that in mind .....

[80-911SC]

I am not really one to talk about PPI though ... I have three aircooled Porsche's and have not had a PPI done on any of them ...I have been around and owned aircooled german cars for over thirty years and for the price I have paid out I am well ahead of the game ... dollar for Deutschmark i have spent very wisely ....

[TV74911S]

rusted bezels can be caused by condensation that forms between the instrument face and the bezel due to humidity. This happened in the '74 I owned which was never driven in the rain and alwasy garaged. Winter in New England is perfect for this to happen - all it takes is a number of abnormally warm days combined with a snow cap to put a ton of moisture in the air.

[pavulon]

I'd be concerned about electrical issues in combination with oxidation inside and out. Did you happen to look under the carpets?

[Smoove1010]

If humidity was enough of an issue to rust the bezels, I'd be checking for rust in the areas that are expensive to fix, like the front suspension pan, battery box, front bumper supports, rocker panels. In particular, if the windshield seal was suspect, the sheet metal adjacent to it should be inspected carefully. Otherwise, I like the color combo, very sharp looking car. Good luck!
GK

[Vereeken]

Only the beezels are weird.

Rust on the bumpers where the rubbers meet. Normal when in a humid climate.

The window not opening. 0 USD or 180 USD at most (assuming second hand motor should it be the motor).

The sunroof. Most likely nothing in parts but a lot in manhours.

If you can do this yourself it is a cheap but labour intensive fix.

[paulmose]

I have the exact color combo on my '85 Carrera, love it, congrats if you decide to go ahead. Remove the carpets in the trunk, and if possible the shield panel that covers the heat/AC ducts and shine a light around the gauge areas to see what is back there corrosion-wise. Check the smuggler's box interior. Inside the interior, under the carpets, follow that path down to the pedal box. Lay on your back to see up under the dash - which is really crammed full of wires, etc, but you might as well while you are in there. The wheels can be painted, lots of threads on this. The bumpers can be done pretty easily, but check underneath where the horns, oil cooler and windshield washer reservoirs are to see what it looks like underneath. Also check the fender-to-body brackets that are shaped like a horseshoe. If they are bent it can be a telltale sign of an impact. Good luck!!!

[Vereeken]

BTW I can tell from the picture that the oil pressure is good and that the AAR and WUR are working!

1200+ rpm at outside temp of around 0 degrees celcius...and 3 bar. All is well ;o)

I am assuming only a couple of minutes of idling when photo was taken?

Michel

[javadog]

I'm not as fond of that car as you are. Look real closely, if you do a PPI.

The rust on the outside of the bezels only occurs if they get wet and stay wet for a while. The first thing I'd do is pull the gauges and check the dates on the back of each one against the build date of the car, to see if they might have been changed at some point. Look at the condition of the galvanizing on the back of the gauges also. Notice how faded the red marking on the tach is.

The corrosion on the bumper indicates it has been used frequently in a wet climate, one near the ocean, or one that uses salt on the roads in the winter. None of these are good things. You can count on finding more corrosion and rust elsewhere. This is the the type of car that will eventually have rust in "the usual places." There are a lot of cars out there that will never have this problem. Get the car on a lift and look at the condition of the parts and plated fasteners under the car.

The window switches are junk. That could be the problem with the window but I'd pull the door panel off and check the motor. When you pull the door panel, look at the speaker cones. Odds on, they are junk. The sunroof needs to be diagnosed and factored into the price, as well.

The fact that the windshield leaks air means it also leaks water. It's not uncommon for the water from a leaking window to pool on the metal dash surface, under the dash pad, and drip on the floor. Always use a factory gasket and a good brand of glass. Be prepared to fix any nicks in the paint of the window surround. Don't be surprised if you find some rust when you pull the glass out. Definitely pull the dash and look for rust while you're there.

This car has about twice the mileage I'd want to have. Make sure a PPI includes pulling the valve covers off and looking at head studs, valve guides, etc.

When I look for a car, I look nationwide, not just in my local area. Plane tickets are cheaper than car repairs.

JR

[mpetry]

I agree with Jeff, there's a couple things suspect here, this car has either been sitting in the rain or maybe even flooded (?) - where is it located ? If it's east coast, I'd be very suspicious.

What is the condition of the carpets and floors underneath ? Pull up the carpets and see if there's signs of rusting or pooled / standing water, don't buy it. Remember, a car that's flood damaged has gotten water (salt water) in EVERYWHERE. In the upholstery, in the engine, maybe even in the fuel lines. Does it smell "funny" ? Musty ? My 32 year old SC smells like a Porsche should :- )

135K is not excessive for an 88 IF the maintenance records show a top end job in the recent past. A nice 88 Carrera should be a stunner, and the white color wears extremely well - unlike the metallic. This car looks a little shaggy.

[KTL]

Originally Posted by Vereeken

BTW I can tell from the picture that the oil pressure is good and that the AAR and WUR are working!

It's an '88 Carrera with a 3.2 Motronic. No CIS injection using Aux Air Regulator or Warm Up Regulator on these engines.

Agreed the bezels are suspicious. It could be simply a matter of being garage kept all the time and the garage is damp. I have had that problem in my own garage. That's why I crack open the windows a bit to help equalize the interior "weather" as the weather in the garage changes.

Corrosion on the bumper is not a definite indictment of bad weather usage. I've worked on several cars that have seen nothing but nice weather usage since new. Even they have shown some corrosion on the bumpers. It's just a flaw of the rubber pieces holding moisture on the aluminum alloy bumpers, which tend to corrode a bit. The upside is its an easy fix, as these alloy bumpers do not rust-through like a typical body panel. Instead they just develop some surface bubbling.

You might find that the fender stone guards were installed to cover up rock chips. So take a close look at them and see if you can feel any bumps under them. A heat gun will take them off no problem.

Fuchs are anodized and then painted, if original. So you would find that the back side of the wheel is also white. Point being is if you strip the paint, you won't find another color. You'll find anodized metal.

I agree it could be a matter of just a bad switch on the passenger side. These switches tend to fail after about 15 years or more. Not a hard job at all to replace yourself. Just a bunch of screws in various places to get the door panel & parts removed.

Sunroof could be a motor. It wouldn't be the fuse since the fuse is shared with the windows. If the windows are working the sunroof should be working. Sunroof non-operation could be related to the instrument bezels. Because if the rear sunroof drain pipes are plugged, the water ends up in the rear seat footwell area. That would keep the interior damp for certain!

Pilkington is Sigla replacement glass. If it whistles, it certainly leaks and was not replaced properly. Been there done that on my '87. Be sure to take a CLOSE look at the windshield frame at the lower corners along the cowl for ANY signs of rust or repaint.

[hcoles]

my 2 cents, looking at the "cosmetics" mentioned above and there is no mention of at least the top end being done and it looks like the car is located in a climate that could have salt on the roads, I'm not really feeling it. If you really have to have this car and have lots of $$$ and time to go over everything in addition to the motor work and you are getting it for a song, then I guess OK, but as had been said countless times it is always better (cheaper in the long run) to buy a better car. Five or $10k can disappear in a second. Don't worry that you won't have projects even on a good car, there are always little fun projects and maint. to do.

[twistoffat]

Even the screw on the side of the indicator stalks are rusty. That car has been exposed to serious moisture or salty air. The 88 were also galvanised. IŽd personally run, there are better cars