Can MSD ignition combine with pointless optical trigger system?

[clevy70911T]

I have a 70 911 T. Can I upgrade to the MSD 6A ignition and then add the Crane Optical Pickup Trigger (with C/D equiped ignition), 911/914-6 (1968-77) (EL-SW715-0020) to get a multi-spark pointless ignition system?

Is there any other options to have a multi-spark pointless system?

Thanks, Scott

[jluetjen]

Sure! That's what I have in my car right now. It works great and I never have to touch it! You just have to be sure to read both sets of directions well to ensure that they talk to each other correctly. By combining them, you won't need to bother looking at the Porsche 911 page in their installation guide.

I don't have my documentation in front of me, but the biggest "gotcha" had to do with getting the tach adaptor and diodes set up correctly for everything to talk to each other OK. When you get to that part let me know and I'll get wire routing that I used.

[JSDSKI]

Check with John Walker or Steve Weiner (where have you been?)
on this. For my 72 MFI equipped 911T - they recommended:
1) Magnecor 8mm ignition wires
2) Pertronix Ignitor vs. Crane or others
3) MSD 6AL CDI system with High Vibration Coil (and tach adaptor)

It should all be an improvement over the OEM stuff and can be done in stages as budget allows.
Everything is available at Pelican, including installation tech articles, along with links to
threads on this topic... luck

[clevy70911T]

Thanks guys, I figured it was okay to do. I wonder why MSD or any other company hasn't made this an option? I'll be in touch when I get the equipment. thanks again, Scott

[TimT]

I had the crane (nee allison ignition in my car for about 14 yrs!!!!!!) triggering the bosch cd box.... I then got the whole crane ignition sytem....... it works.....

I have since sold my whole ignition ( with '67 S coil) and gone the twin plug electromotive route

you will need a tach adapter though

[Wayne 962]

I keep telling Steve to drop in, but he says by the time he reads the posts, everyone has already answered...

-Wayne

[TimT]

I respect Steves input as always... however his aversion to crank fired ignitions puzzles me. I just did a plug change on my '97 explorer the allowable gap is .059!!!!!!

yet Steve claims the aftermarket electromotive type crank fired ignitions cant put a spark across a gap greater than .024? ( pls dont quote me) The electromotive is basically some GM coils that are triggered by a signal from the crank.... it works.... and you have no distributor gears etc to worry about

Many racers and street people use this..........

[CamB]

You can quote Steve if you like :

"3) Crank-triggered Distributorless Ignitions. The ubiquitous Electromotive HPV-1's and TEC-II Engine Management systems fall into this category as does the superb but expensive MoTec ones. These can be challenging to install and do require additional RFI and EMI shielding to prevent stray ignition signals that create random misfires. We use additional grounding straps and Magnecor wires to eliminate this possibility and maintain the integrity of the ignition signals. These coil-pack ignition systems operate at system bus voltage and do not produce the amount of ignition current needed to keep the plugs clean in a rich mixture environment. Carbureted and MFI-equipped engines do operate with rich idle mixtures needed for best throttle response and will foul plugs MUCH easier with these ignitions.

The other big drawback is that you cannot use spark plug gaps larger than .032 without misfires. Its well proven and documented that plug gaps in the .040-.045 range make more overall power and result in better idle qualities due to the larger flame kernel and the resulting more thorough combustion process."

Also, MSD has instructions to hook up a Pertronix to the MSD (last page of the manual - see www.msdignition.com ).

[TimT]

Cam,

I am well aware of Steves website, and of his opinions regarding the crank fired sytem...

I have the electromotive on my car (2.2L)

my friend has the TEC-2 (3.4L)

Another has the Haltech F-9 (3.9L twin turbo)

not one of us have the the fouling issues that Steve talks about, and my enigine with the webers would be the most prone to fouling.. it just doesnt happen....

The Tec-2 is hard to set up ( we recently dynoed the car..... 311 RWHP, that ismore than 100hp/ltr)

The Haltech is much more user friendly

(both are integrated efi/ignition, nee engine management sytems)

the electromotive is cake to set up

I know I dont have the respect a that a guy like Steve commands given all his years in the business, I just see lots of guys using the electomotive, or other crank fired systems and I dont hear or witness anybody complaining about them.

Most of the major auto manufacturers are also using crank fired ignitions.... when was the last time you opened the hood on a new car and found a distributor?

finally the RSR distributor cap goes for about $1200 (US)


there is no way in hell I am going to pay $1200 for a cap

My whole electromotive system with wires and trigger was a bit more than $1800 (US)

[TimT]

well there are some makes that still use distributors

[CamB]

Tim

I should really have written that I don't know and I was just repeating his site. I can confirm that:

- MSD is WAAAAAAAAAY better than no CD unit (have done this to my '69T and the 2002tii).

- the guy building my "new" engine has said that I am getting (not MSD, "modern" coil and ignition module fired twin plug through 964 distributor - see pic below) will have no problems (short stroke 3.2 EFI).

I haven't tried the Electromotive so I can't comment... and I agree - 1200 for a cap and rotor is ridiculous (plus the other stuff needed). You can do it cheaper with a modified 964 distributor and 2x MSD.

I guess (really guess ) that perhaps Steve is talking about a problem only once the engine is large (maybe 3.0 and up?) and has high performance cams (eg 906?) AND carbs or MFI. Perhaps the ability to fully map the ignition and fuel on computer controlled cars reduces this problem. Having said that, I agree from my limited knowledge that your own car should show up the problem...

So..... I dunno what the correct answer is. Oh, pic of my ignition bits:

[Oldporsche]

any comments on the SDS efi unit. URL: sdsefi.com

I think this unit offers some hope for the <3.0L crowd.
It can be easily modified for a twin-plug motor. If you go for EFI, it manages that too. It looks very reasonable when compaired with MO-TEC and the Electromotive unit.

Any personal experiences would be interesting.

Good luck,
David Duffield