Targa seals

[dyerkes]

I know someone on PP must have a 911 Targa that doesn't leak. If yours doesn't would you please post pictures of your seals showing the fit of the front, side and rear seals with the windows up and door closed. I have had my top rebuilt by Dan and installed his front seal, as well as replaced all other seals purchased from a Porsche dealership. I have adjusted the Windows (parallel and stop height) and replaced the vent window rubber window stops. While the passenger window appears to seal better, both sides leak equally under heavy rainfall in the front corners. Although the lateral seals are both adjusted as far out as they can go, the driver's side sits about a quarter inch further in at the rear (that's why the rear doesn't fit over the corner). I plan on removing the lateral seal and expand the hole so that it can be moved further out, but I wanted to see how the seals fit on a car that doesn't leak before I proceed. Is the front lateral seal supposed to fully cover the top of the window frame?

Thanks

[don gilbert]

Just dont drive it in the rain.

[TheGreg]

Funny story:
When I had the PPI done on my car before I bought it, I asked the technician to check and see if the Targa top leaked. He turned and deadpanned to me, "Dude, they ALL leak."

So...take that as you may.

Turns out mine doesn't. I mean it really really doesn't.

[universeman]

Ah, David - welcome to my world. How long have you had the car? Read my thread "Leaking targa top may end my love of the 911" to see all the things I've tried. I've got 90% of the leaks down, but in a heavy rainstorm it still comes in.

Looking at your pictures, one thing I see is that the rear corner of the door glass is not tucked into the side seal like it should be. And, in pic 3, the roll bar seal seems to be too low on the glass -- it should be being compressed by the top side seal so as to form a tight corner like in pic 1. But you said your leaking is coming from the front corners.

The triangular vent window frames are adjustable - have you lifted them as far as they will go? My driver side one seals well but my pass side does not raise enough with the stock holes - I have thought about going extreme and grinding the holes to increase the vertical adjustment possible.

PS expect lots of "sell the targa and buy a coupe" etc type comments but just disregard them. Like you seem to be, I am on a mission to create for myself a leak-proof targa!

[universeman]

Also that vent window frame looks too far out at the top, especially if the seals are all the way outboard. Have you tried adjusting it inward using the washers at the bottom connection point? Close the door to trap a dollar bill in the seal, on the a-pillar, does the pressure required to remove the dollar decrease on the top of the vent frame?

[dyerkes]

Jason,

In regards to tilting the vent window, no I have not tried inserting a washer to increase the slant inwards. Yes, I have read your thread, and many others. I was really hoping to get someone to step up and show us what a properly sealed window looks like. I have read the two tech articles, and watched the German YouTube video showing how to adjust everything, but I have yet to locate good clear photos that demonstrate how the window should fit relative to the seals. Hopefully someone will post some good photos.

[Otter74]

My top miraculously does not seem to leak, but I would certainly not go so far as to say that very much about my car is technically correct. E.g. I can almost stick a pinky finger through the gap at the top of one of the vent windows, it's got the wrong windshield header seal, etc. I don't know if it will leak if it is parked in a downpour, but it does not leak when I drive it in a downpour. If you like, I'll take some pics this weekend.

[dyerkes]

Otter74,

Thanks for the offer, but if you have gaps that you can stick your pinky through, and yet not have water seep through, I don't think a photo will help, but I think I could use some of your mojo as my leaks are coming through extremely tight joints. Like you, it is most noticeable when at a stand still, not so much when in motion.

Ideally I am hoping someone has a clear factory photo showing the exact position of the seals, and how they meet up with glass, window frames and adjoining seals.

Regards

[universeman]

You mean the xerox'd black and white shop manuals from the 1980s aren't clear enough for you David? Jeez, some people....

I have thought about cutting some rubber rain stops to hang out over the side seals and catch water, throwing it away from the car like a gutter of sorts. I even bought the rubber to do it, and did a test fit and it was almost invisible unless you knew what to look for. Like you David my vent window tops seem to be a source of a lot of my water incursion, despite having Dan's seal, Dan's top, etc. (Hmmmm...Dan is also a common thread here? But no, he does great work and I don't think that's the problem)

My theory is that a strip of thin rubber would be weighted under raindrop weight and tend to shed water further away from the top edge of the window.

[shaunmbenson]

My top doesn't leak -- not when pressure washed nor on my last 14 hour drive in torrential rain.

Hope these pics help -- driver's side sits a bit proud at the far left windshield and a hint of wind noise can come in at 75 but other than that she's tight -- Dan redid top when I bought car and seals are original (70k miles on car -- 1985).

Good luck -- my targa still has some rattles and squeaks when the top's on but a well fitted top = great pleasure and worth adjusting to achieve

[rwest]

Shaun,

Great pictures, should help a lot of us. If it's not too much trouble, can you please post a few pictures of where the side of the front seal meets the top of the door?

Thanks,
Rutager

[dyerkes]

Jason,

It use be my poor eyesight, but this Xerox copies of the manual are definitely blurry in terms of being able to see subtle details.

Shaun,

Great photos! These are very helpful. Is your front seal original? I really like how that lip is so extended over the vent window in comparison of mine. It really seems crazy why there isn't far more lip on all of the seals so there is ample overhang. I believe if that was the case, it would far simpler to prevent water seepage without all of these confounded adjustments. So exactly how close to the edge does you lateral seal fit on the top side of your vent window? On mine I can see about half of the little screws that secure the window stop in place. Based on your photos you can't see any screws. Is that correct? How much of a gap do you have between the vent window and the A pillar? What about the gap between the top of the vent window frame and the bottom of the gutter?

Shaun and Jason - thanks for sharing, and hopefully we will get others to share their photos of their dry Porsches so we can learn from them. I have to believe there should be precise measurements as to all of the various gaps, assuming you have all new seals. As the seals age I understand the need to adjust to accommodate shrinkage, but I can't imagine the factory didn't have precise measurements for all of the gaps that the assembly workers used.

Regards

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by shaunmbenson

Ubersexytargaseal.

[shaunmbenson]

Just at the track this weekend gents - will post those pics you requested Monday.

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by dyerkes

While the passenger window appears to seal better, both sides leak equally under heavy rainfall in the front corners.

Dyerkes... if the corners are in relatively good form in terms of sealing, try inserting some coins on the inside of the corners to tighten the rubber against the glass. In addition to coins, I've custom cut the forward lateral seal (to lower it)... have a wick under the rear seal (to improve rear drainage)... redrilled the roof's side seals (to allow better positioning), and spent hours adjusting the tilt and pitch of the windows (to tune them to the roof.) It can be an epic journey... but one that's well worth it after all's said and done.