downshifting

Brian993 · Brian993's Garage

Man, I almost blew it! This 6 speed is going to take some time to get used to. I have always had a hard time with 5th gear. I am more used to 4 speeds. Anyhow, I took a 10 mile jaunt on the freeway this evening bringing it up to around 100 mph for a short burst - I was in 5th started to downshift and quickly realized I was going into second, when I hit 6 grand! I pushed the clutch back in and threw it into 4th. I am sure I am not the only one who has done this.

It will get your attention, slow you right down and strain your ears listening for noises. Everything seems fine. The question I have is when downshifting, does the clutch see significant wear? I have always been preoccupied with clutch wear. Almost to the point I hate to use it.

Jim Richards · 07-02-2002, 06:56 PM

BigB, I'm not a big fan of the 6-speed either. It takes some getting used to.

Langers · 07-02-2002, 07:08 PM

Unless you match the revs to roadspeed by double-declutching or heel and toeing, the clutch will have maximum wear placed on it as it tries to bring the engine up to speed (from idle to whetever RPM needed for new gear).

Neither is a hard skill to learn. I have only been driving for a year, but have practiced the double declutching all the time and it's getting to the stage where you can't even FEEL the car change gears, only hear it.

Good luck.

Brian993 · Brian993's Garage

double declutching? Man I have a lot to learn!

Langers · 07-02-2002, 07:19 PM

BigB - I'll give you a few links, although your best bet would be to get someone who knows how to do it to drive your car and you watch them.

http://www.audifans.com/archives/1998/06/msg00792.html

http://www.drivingtechniques.co.uk/ShowPage.asp?Activemenu=51&PageID=41

http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/howto/articles/45792/article.html

IMHO double de-clutching should be a skill every Porsche driver should possess.

Oh yea one more tip: when you begin, DO NOT try to change gears quickly. You will screw up. Just take your time, and remember only maybe 1500 rpm is needed in the neutral stage.

stuartj · 07-02-2002, 07:39 PM

Suggest you learn to heel and toe if you are going to drive like that, or you will damage something by over revving, do a clutch or lock up the rears via compression lock up and throw yourself into the countryside backwards.

stuart 87 carrera

Brian993 · Brian993's Garage

Stu - My sense is you are a self proclaimed genius who has come here to enlighten us all.

stuartj · 07-02-2002, 08:17 PM

Big Painta

Well, thanks. You are clearly a man of uncommon perception and discernment. I shall look for the gleam of chrome in the shubbery.

stuart 87 carrera

Brian993 · Brian993's Garage

You win! I dont come here for this crap.

Matt Smith · 07-02-2002, 08:33 PM

Exactly: you came here to ask how to drive your 6 speed properly. I see lots of efforts above offering to help!

Take it easy B. Not everyone is ultra helpful, but it sure makes for interesting reading for all of us attracted to the five star rating this thread already has

Jack Olsen · 07-02-2002, 08:58 PM

"IMHO double de-clutching should be a skill every Porsche driver should possess. "

I disagree. Heel and toeing makes a meaningul difference, and will help prolong your clutch life, somewhat. But it won't keep you from blowing downshifts.

Langers · 07-02-2002, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JackOlsen
"IMHO double de-clutching should be a skill every Porsche driver should possess. "

I disagree. Heel and toeing makes a meaningul difference, and will help prolong your clutch life, somewhat. But it won't keep you from blowing downshifts.

Ok make that very humble opinion.

Victor · 07-02-2002, 10:05 PM

No way!

I came here to see people beat the ***** out of StuartJ.

stuartj · 07-02-2002, 10:11 PM

Victor
You are a complicated guy. Breathing the NOS again?
stuart

Victor · 07-02-2002, 10:39 PM

StuartJ,

I live my life a quarter mile at a time. For those 18 seconds or less, I'm free.

Adam · Adam's Garage

Victor,

LOL! Sounds like those latest "improvements" really added some stank to that 3.2 of yours...

Any further news on your drive day? My work email (also the one in my Pelican profile - adam@makinandluby.com.au ) is down, so if I missed it, I apologize.

APKhaos · 11:43 PM

Hmmm ....the boys are a bit punchy tonight.......

Looks like there are three questions being tossed around here:

1. The Porsche shifter gate design really demands attention. The six speed should be better than the venerable 915, but you can miss shifts in almost any car - especially one that is new to you like B's is to him.

2. Clutch wear, rapid weight transfer, and other ungodly results of a bad downshift can be prevented by rev matching = a throttle blip to spin the engine up to close to the revs needed to match the car's speed in the lower gear. Heel and toe [in all its forms] is simply a technique to get the throttle blip done while braking at the same time.

3. Double clutching [or double declutching if you went to that school] is a technique as old as racing, developed when cars had straight-cut gears [aka crash boxes]. The only way to downshift into a straight cut gear is to get the two gears spinning at something like the same speed before ramming 'em into mesh. No choice - no double clutch/no downshift. If you want to see and hear this in action, watch Allan Decatenet driving the early Ferraris in Excellence by Design - Ferrari.

This took releasing the clutch [in neutral - between the higher and lower gear] for the throttle blip, then depressing the clutch again before getting the lower gear engaged.

Double clutching a synchromeshed gearbox is really not doing much except reducing the amount of work the synchros have to do to get the gears in mesh. If you have rev matched with a blip [braking or not], them most would say that the double clutching buys you nothing worthwhile.

If you loose synchro on a gear, and really need to downshift, double clutch is the way to go. It also helps satifsy the Fangio fetish if you're that way inclined

I have to be out of my mind to be typing this at 2AM.

Victor · 07-02-2002, 11:13 PM

Hi Adam,

I have been snowed under at work lately. I'll probably send out an email tonight. I am thinking August the 4th at this point. Had the banana straightened out yet?

APKhaos, it's 4 o'clock in the afternoon over here, can you believe we are like this when we're sober?

speeder · speeder's Garage

Jack is right though, double-clutching may have it's virtues, God knows it has been debated here in the past, but it won't keep you (or me) from accidentally shifting into the wrong gear. I think that the best thing to do is just take a lot of relaxing drives and really get to know that new gearbox. Kind of a "zen-bonding" w/ der Porsche. Also, when I am really hauling cheeks, I slow my hand and feet down a 1/4 click, if that makes sense, sort of like rubbing belly while patting head that we did when we were kids, but a lot of race driving is like this. Things going in slowmotion, hope this makes sense.

zuffenhausen · 07-02-2002, 11:30 PM

BigB,

I'm sorry, but you really bring most of this abuse upon yourself. It seems like every month you submit a post describing something idiotic you've done while driving. With your self-acknowledged lack of skill behind the wheel, what business did you have doing 100MPH on the freeway? And what prompted you to want to downshift from fifth at that speed? You really need to cool your jets and operate your car within your limits, or you need to find another hobby. In fact, to avoid the whole clutch wear issue, go ahead and stop using your clutch altogether. I think that will be safer for us all.

-zuff