Has anyone tryed Gripper LSD?

[P.R]

Gripper LSD offer good price and lifetime warranty, has anyone tried them?

Many people seem to be very happy with the Guard LSD and I've heard they have great customer service but there is a great difference in price compared with Gripper.

Porsche 911 GRIPPER LSD ultimate PLATE TYPE diff | eBay


I have 100% nothing to do with Gripper or RDR Motorsport that sells them on ebay. Just curious!

[spuggy]

GT diffs were just not available when I needed one, so I bought a Gripper in 2006; Francis Tuthill uses them in his early cars and they're widely used by the early rally guys in the UK. Mike (MBEngineering) set mine up with 40/65 ramps, breakaway around 78 ft/lbs of torque. I ran it for 25,000+ miles in a midyear tub with a 400HP 930 (99% street all-weather driving, odd track day). When last checked, the torque rating on the LSD was still way up there...

I liked my Gripper a lot; I was astonished how much difference it made to driving the car, and how much more predictable/controllable/well-behaved the car was, compared to an open diff. Single best upgrade I've made to the car, IMO. I've just converted to G50 and not having an asymmetric LSD wasn't an option. I fitted a GT with the same setup spec. The GT seems slightly smoother to drive; clanks less loading/unloading the ramps - like when reversing out of parking spaces, for example.

That Evil Bay price seems higher than the makers list for our cars dmpgripperapplications - but that may be the setup/tuning charge from the Ebay seller; could be wrong, but I get the impression the Gripper guys just make/supply LSDs, they don't set it up for you.

So you would need a tranny guy who understands your needs to set it up/tune to suit, as well as the usual check/set pre-load/backlash fitting hoops. GT, of course, talk to you to establish what you need/does that when supplied.

Oh, and I spoke with the Gripper guys a few weeks ago; helpful guys. They don't list a G50 Gripper on the application sheet, but they've made them before and they'd happily make more if asked

[P.R]

Originally Posted by spuggy

GT diffs were just not available when I needed one, so I bought a Gripper in 2006; Francis Tuthill uses them in his early cars and they're widely used by the early rally guys in the UK. Mike (MBEngineering) set mine up with 40/65 ramps, breakaway around 78 ft/lbs of torque. I ran it for 25,000+ miles in a midyear tub with a 400HP 930 (99% street all-weather driving, odd track day). When last checked, the torque rating on the LSD was still way up there...

I liked my Gripper a lot; I was astonished how much difference it made to driving the car, and how much more predictable/controllable/well-behaved the car was, compared to an open diff. Single best upgrade I've made to the car, IMO. I've just converted to G50 and not having an asymmetric LSD wasn't an option. I fitted a GT with the same setup spec. The GT seems slightly smoother to drive; clanks less loading/unloading the ramps - like when reversing out of parking spaces, for example.

That Evil Bay price seems higher than the makers list for our cars dmpgripperapplications - but that may be the setup/tuning charge from the Ebay seller; could be wrong, but I get the impression the Gripper guys just make/supply LSDs, they don't set it up for you.

So you would need a tranny guy who understands your needs to set it up/tune to suit, as well as the usual check/set pre-load/backlash fitting hoops. GT, of course, talk to you to establish what you need/does that when supplied.

Oh, and I spoke with the Gripper guys a few weeks ago; helpful guys. They don't list a G50 Gripper on the application sheet, but they've made them before and they'd happily make more if asked

Thanks for your response!

Regarding the price, the tax 20% is included on ebay but not on Grippers website what I understand, hence the price difference?

Yes it sounds great with a lifetime warranty and low price, I think the Guard is a better product though but is the price difference justifiable?

I can not go into the Guard's website, does anyone know why?

I'm also thinking of a Wavetrac, yes I do know that Guard/Gripper diff type will be faster on race-track when you can brake later with consistant behavior. My 911 is mostly a streetcar.

What I´m looking for and prefer is a consistent behavior and good balance with the ability to run with controlled Powerslide in dry and wet, does anyone know if a Wavetrack works nice for this? I´ts not so consistent now with a open diff..

I do not like the car to understeer and Wavetrack seems not to give that effect.


I like to say that I have received a private message from someone who bought a Gripper for about 5 years ago and was not happy with the support from Gripper. RDR Motorsport seems to guarantee that you will be satisfied ?

I do not know if it's true though ..

[KTL]

Contact Matt Monson (that is his exact username and real name) here on Pelican. He's the owner of Guard.

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by P.R

Thanks for your response!

Regarding the price, the tax 20% is included on ebay but not on Grippers website what I understand, hence the price difference?

Ah, right. VAT isn't (cannot be) charged on sales outside the EU. You don't say where you are

Yes it sounds great with a lifetime warranty and low price, I think the Guard is a better product though but is the price difference justifiable?

Depends on your needs. I've never heard that there's a better product than the Guard. Period.

So then you get into the tradeoffs, and your selection criteria. One of these might be price.

For my particular requirements, I thought the GT was the best choice - if there had been a better one, I'd have bought that. One of my criteria was strength. That probably wouldn't even be a factor if I were considering LSDs for an N/A car.

I like to say that I have received a private message from someone who bought a Gripper for about 5 years ago and was not happy with the support from Gripper. RDR Motorsport seems to guarantee that you will be satisfied ?

I do not know if it's true though ..

Well, ask yourself "Why would he lie"? Especially in private? But I don't know the story.

I'm a happy customer of both Gripper and Guard. I didn't set up or install either unit personally; someone who knows what they're doing did that in both cases. I'm sure that helps - a lot...

Your experience with any LSD has got to be best if you're working with someone who knows the products well, familiar with your application/usage and knows how best to set it up to suit that. That's the service/support side of the equation.

Matt does this for GT - before I ordered my GT, we discussed the specific car and how it gets used. We agreed to replicate the existing configuration - and sure enough, for the stuff that matters, the GT unit drives exactly the same as far as I can tell. And seems more civilized to boot. I know it's fitted and working, because I was too lazy to switch out my summer tires for a while there and the GT would step in from time-to-time...

For other LSD's, it depends on who you get it from. Perhaps your installer does it for you (that would probably work best).

But not all motorsports shops are necessarily familiar with 911's, for example. Some LSD's apparently come from the factory with the ramps the wrong way round for rear-engine usage, I've heard... So the shops that know will take care of that. Or at least know about it.

I had an experienced guy who works with lots of competition cars and is pretty well-known for transmission work; worked with Gripper units a lot and knew them well. I'd probably have put a GT in the 915, had it been available at the time - even asked if he could get one. So I found a NOS Gripper. It was an older unit (in 2006); internals were updated to the later stuff and put it in. I've no idea what's needed/available if you bought one today.

I was very happy with the Gripper. It did everything it was supposed to when I took delivery of the transmission - and was still working great when I sold the transmission years and 10's of 1000's of miles later.

Multiple instructors drove the car with the Gripper fitted; no-one commented on the LSD specifically, although one, (who had an SC-based race car), did say that he liked the way the car was set up, thought it drove really nice.

[ErVikingo]

Matt's website is down currently. Call him.

[Matt Monson]

Hi guys,
Sorry about the website. It has a bad case of the flu. You can see our backup site at www.guardtranmsissionllc.com

While I appreciate everyone's kind words, as a general rule I try to stay out of this sort of thread. It is not my policy to compare my product directly with a competitor. I just think it is bad form, so I let you guys discuss it without much of my involvement or interference. Keeps it more pure that way.

However, I will make a couple of comments.
1. We do not offer a warranty. This is accurate. We manufacture parts for motorsports use. Under the rigours of racing ANYTHING can break. We warrant that our parts will be free from material defects and flaws and if they have any, we will fully stand behind the parts. I have yet to have someone break one of our differentials that was actually a problem with the product. I've have a few people try to push "warranty" issues past me, but it wasn't the product's fault that it failed. The only repairs or replacements I have ever offered were by the way of good will actions and not because I felt there was actually something wrong with the component.

One of our customers made a statement in a similar thread discussing Brand X and GT. He said something to the effect of, "Brand X has a lifetime warranty. When I used their differentials I broke them, and Brand X warrantied it. I have had a GT LSD for a number of years now. It has never broken. I don't see why it would need a warranty." Kind of sums it up for me.

2.The other thing would be a little metaphor. If you go out running barefoot and then someone hands you a really nice pair of running shoes, your reaction is going to be,"WOW! My feet don't hurt any more. My knees and lower back are taking so much less of a pounding. These things are amazing!!!" Performance differentials are the same way.

Especially on a 911, if you go from an open differential to a performance differential, your eyes are going to open up and your life will change over night. Now it is a fact that when we have conducted back to back tests with our LSDs against certain competitors, we have found that ours are faster. But if you aren't racing, there is the sort of cost benefit analysis to be considered that the OP is doing here. I am going to be the last one to fault him for that.

3.In closing, if you are starting to look outside of LSDs and into TBDs (torque biasing differentials, aka Torsens) please consider our TBD for your car. It is what I run in my personal 914. I don't track the car very much. It is what I call a "barn stormer" running around on the farm roads and mountain drives here in Colorado. I'm never braking hard enough to really benefit from the LSD's lock up under braking. That would be unsafe on public roads. Sure, it would help some, but how much? What really matters is the squirt it gives me on corner exit and that planted feeling on throttle. For a cost effective option that requires no maintenance and doesn't really change the way your car handles, a TBD is a great option to think about.

Regards,

Matt

[P.R]

Originally Posted by spuggy

Ah, right. VAT isn't (cannot be) charged on sales outside the EU. You don't say where you are



Depends on your needs. I've never heard that there's a better product than the Guard. Period.

So then you get into the tradeoffs, and your selection criteria. One of these might be price.

For my particular requirements, I thought the GT was the best choice - if there had been a better one, I'd have bought that. One of my criteria was strength. That probably wouldn't even be a factor if I were considering LSDs for an N/A car.



Well, ask yourself "Why would he lie"? Especially in private? But I don't know the story.

I'm a happy customer of both Gripper and Guard. I didn't set up or install either unit personally; someone who knows what they're doing did that in both cases. I'm sure that helps - a lot...

Your experience with any LSD has got to be best if you're working with someone who knows the products well, familiar with your application/usage and knows how best to set it up to suit that. That's the service/support side of the equation.

Matt does this for GT - before I ordered my GT, we discussed the specific car and how it gets used. We agreed to replicate the existing configuration - and sure enough, for the stuff that matters, the GT unit drives exactly the same as far as I can tell. And seems more civilized to boot. I know it's fitted and working, because I was too lazy to switch out my summer tires for a while there and the GT would step in from time-to-time...

For other LSD's, it depends on who you get it from. Perhaps your installer does it for you (that would probably work best).

But not all motorsports shops are necessarily familiar with 911's, for example. Some LSD's apparently come from the factory with the ramps the wrong way round for rear-engine usage, I've heard... So the shops that know will take care of that. Or at least know about it.

I had an experienced guy who works with lots of competition cars and is pretty well-known for transmission work; worked with Gripper units a lot and knew them well. I'd probably have put a GT in the 915, had it been available at the time - even asked if he could get one. So I found a NOS Gripper. It was an older unit (in 2006); internals were updated to the later stuff and put it in. I've no idea what's needed/available if you bought one today.

I was very happy with the Gripper. It did everything it was supposed to when I took delivery of the transmission - and was still working great when I sold the transmission years and 10's of 1000's of miles later.

Multiple instructors drove the car with the Gripper fitted; no-one commented on the LSD specifically, although one, (who had an SC-based race car), did say that he liked the way the car was set up, thought it drove really nice.

Nice to hear that you were satisfied with your Gripper, it is about half price (under half if you live in Europe) compared to the Guard and it has lifetime warranty. Sounds good..

You misunderstood me, I did not say that he who contacted me via pm lied.. He seems like a really good guy and has been very helpful..

I meant that I do not know if RDR Motorsport who sells the Gripper account for their promises in their ad. I have not bought any of them so I do not know.

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by P.R

Nice to hear that you were satisfied with your Gripper, it is about half price (under half if you live in Europe) compared to the Guard and it has lifetime warranty. Sounds good..

You misunderstood me, I did not say that he who contacted me via pm lied.. He seems like a really good guy and has been very helpful..

No, sorry, you misunderstood me. I didn't say that the chap who contacted you lied. I did not intend to suggest that he did, nor did I in fact do so.

I asked you to consider the question "why would he lie"? - a rhetorical question, intended to get you to think about the implications of him replying to you privately.

In other words, if he took the trouble to contact you to address the question you posed, the chances are probably good that he is genuine and sincere - and especially so if he seems rational and reasonable, as opposed to attempting a rabid smear job.

If he had some kind of agenda, he would probably not miss an opportunity to express it publicly - instead of which he shared with you the information that he had difficulty in the past. Privately.

Sorry to hear it didn't work out for him.

I meant that I do not know if RDR Motorsport who sells the Gripper account for their promises in their ad. I have not bought any of them so I do not know.

Sorry, never heard of them (this is hardly a small group - there are very many people who've forgotten more about any given subject than I'll ever know that I've never heard of

Perhaps someone on the UK Porsche boards (DDK, pistonheads, Impactbumpers) has dealt with them/knows them?

Otherwise, where are you based and who will be fitting the LSD to your transmission? That's the person you should perhaps be talking to.

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by P.R

I meant that I do not know if RDR Motorsport who sells the Gripper account for their promises in their ad.

The guys who make Gripper don't make any mention of warranty on their web site, except in their terms and conditions of sale - it isn't a lifetime warranty. So it would seem to be RDR offering that.

My Gripper seemed fairly robust. I ran it with a tuned CIS 930 (400+HP at the flywheel) and it didn't break or wear out. Unlike the clutches. Your mileage may vary.

[P.R]

Matt seems like a really good guy with a good product, probably the best on the market. But..

It is too expensive, especially if you live in Europe (which I do) that's why I'm looking for alternatives.

A thought?
If a manufacturer produces a good product, why not offer warranty? If it never breaks down, it's nothing to be afraid of?

If a manufacturer has a bad product I do understand that they do not want to offer warranty..


So I'm thinking about:

Gripper:
I've talked to RDR Motorsport and they seems nice, they provide a lifetime warranty and you can return the diff to get it rebuilt to other specifikation up to 6 months after purchase at no charge.

Kaaz:
I have spoken to Paul at Tuthill Porsche and they are very nice. They are very happy with Kaaz and have not had any problems with them.

Tuthill has a lot of experience, and they are pleased with Kaaz so it leans towards KAAZ for me.


I bought most of my parts for my 911 from the United States (many parts it has become), and it is really good products. But sometimes you have to try to find alternatives.

[Matt Monson]

P.R,
As I said, we are a motorsports manufacturer. Our parts are inteneded for racing. If someone like you wants to put a motorsports part into your street hot rod, that is fine. But in racing things break all the time. Pretty much none of the major motorsports manufacturers in America put a long term "warranty" on their products. Like us, they guarantee that the parts are free of material defects or flaws. A material defect or flaw is going to show itself very quickly in a high performance application,not months or years after installation.

Furthermore, do not be fooled by terminology. I used to work in another industry where many products carried "lifetime" warranties. People assume that a lifetime warranty is forever or that it is for their own life (the life of a human). It is not. It is for the lifetime of the product. You have no idea how many times I have seen people send products back to a manufacturer to warranty the item and the response is that the customer wore out the product and that the "lifetime" of the product was used up. So no warranty replacement. Marketing is tricky like that and many many people fall into that trap.

[P.R]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

P.R,
As I said, we are a motorsports manufacturer. Our parts are inteneded for racing. If someone like you wants to put a motorsports part into your street hot rod, that is fine. But in racing things break all the time. Pretty much none of the major motorsports manufacturers in America put a long term "warranty" on their products. Like us, they guarantee that the parts are free of material defects or flaws. A material defect or flaw is going to show itself very quickly in a high performance application,not months or years after installation.

Furthermore, do not be fooled by terminology. I used to work in another industry where many products carried "lifetime" warranties. People assume that a lifetime warranty is forever or that it is for their own life (the life of a human). It is not. It is for the lifetime of the product. You have no idea how many times I have seen people send products back to a manufacturer to warranty the item and the response is that the customer wore out the product and that the "lifetime" of the product was used up. So no warranty replacement. Marketing is tricky like that and many many people fall into that trap.

Hi Matt
My street hot rod 911 with N/A engine does 0-62 under 4 sec. I raced against a Panamera V8 turbo with PDK and launch that does 0-62 in 3,9 sec and was ahead of him up to 100 mph.

I will strengthen the transmission and like to fit a LSD when the gearbox is out.
Pinion and crown wheel are forced apart due to excessive power.

There is always something that gives up when you get more power, the next is probably the drive shafts?

I do think that Gripper and KAAZ are made for racing, same as your fine Guard. Paul at Tuthill told me that they has mounted at least 50 Kaaz on racing cars without any problems.

I have two herniated discs and two bulging disks in my neck after an accident. If I get help and surgery so I get rid of pain etc. will I run on the race track then..

[Matt Monson]

PR,
Your last couple of posts are a bit confusing. You say you are talking to RDR about my LSD Tuthill about the Kaaz. Not only is the first one obviously supposed to be Gripper, but as Spuggy said in his first post, I'm pretty sure Tuthill is using the Gripper as well. They run my gears and certain other component in their East African Safari rally cars as well as a number of their tarmac and gravel and ice cars in the UK and elsewhere in Europe. I have spoken to them about LSDs on multiple occasion and they have only ever mentioned the Gripper to me.

Regardless, none of this is really here nor there. I never said anyone else's parts aren't for racing. As I said in my first post, I'm not here to talk trash about someone else's stuff. I have kept my comments to my products and how I run my company, not what anyone else is doing. I'm not interesting in arguing with you about any of that and will leave it to your peers to discuss with you what works and what doesn't work and why, etc. Just keep in mind, that just like I am biased and going to tell you that what I make is the best, RDR and Tuthill and any other shop you talk to is going to tell you that what they are selling is the best. Know your source. Know their bias. Judge their words accordingly. Get well soon and enjoy your car. I'm bow out of this thread because there is no more "technical" contribution that I have to offer to your search...

[P.R]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

PR,
Your last couple of posts are a bit confusing. You say you are talking to RDR about my LSD Tuthill about the Kaaz. Not only is the first one obviously supposed to be Gripper, but as Spuggy said in his first post, I'm pretty sure Tuthill is using the Gripper as well. They run my gears and certain other component in their East African Safari rally cars as well as a number of their tarmac and gravel and ice cars in the UK and elsewhere in Europe. I have spoken to them about LSDs on multiple occasion and they have only ever mentioned the Gripper to me.

Regardless, none of this is really here nor there. I never said anyone else's parts aren't for racing. As I said in my first post, I'm not here to talk trash about someone else's stuff. I have kept my comments to my products and how I run my company, not what anyone else is doing. I'm not interesting in arguing with you about any of that and will leave it to your peers to discuss with you what works and what doesn't work and why, etc. Just keep in mind, that just like I am biased and going to tell you that what I make is the best, RDR and Tuthill and any other shop you talk to is going to tell you that what they are selling is the best. Know your source. Know their bias. Judge their words accordingly. Get well soon and enjoy your car. I'm bow out of this thread because there is no more "technical" contribution that I have to offer to your search...

Ooooops. Sorry Matt!!

I wrote Guard and meant Gripper in post above, sorry about that. I changed it. I do not get much sleep because my pain from neckinjury.

I spoke to Paul at Tuthill Porsche UK today and he said that they use to have Gripper but have went to KAAZ LSD now and are happy with them. I will get a quote from them about KAAZ and from RDR Motors who sells Gripper.

I do think that Guard is a nice product but it will become a bit pricey for my sake. Not all your fault..

The reason why is that i do have to pay about 33% tax to Swedish government on everything that i buy from US so an LSD that cost $3000 in US will be become about 4000+shipping when it is at my door.

I can buy KAAZ or Gripper LSD in UK for about $1500+ shipping.

A considerable difference in price.