Ed, or others,

Any idea what the #2 Pin-Alt in the Carrera harness would connect to in the '72 harness? Pin #14 is also marked Alt/Starter on both harnesses, but there is nothing that matches up with pin #2 on the early harness. Is this just another power feed for accessories, and unneeded on the early chassis?

Thanks.
Roger

The number 2 pin on the Carrera engine harness is not used in the conversion.
All the connections I highlighted with the tinted rectangles are not needed.

Thank you very much Ed!

Also, for the benefit of anyone looking at this thread in the future, I found the part number for the M18xM10 adapter for the sending unit; PN 901.101.175.01.

This thread has some good info on this topic:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/247251-3-2-swap-oil-pressure-sender.html

Roger

Rear fender mounted oil cooler?
 

OK, maybe it's the combination of Paulaner double bock and weed killer, but I'm wondering if I could add a small oil cooler in the rear fender well, between the engine and the filter console.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1367793168.jpg

I will have a Carrera cooler up front, but thought that maybe a little extra cooling would be helpful for DE. I'm not cutting off the battery box, so I won't be able to install a fan up front, so I thought this might be an interesting option. I tried some searches but didn't find anything regarding a rear mounted cooler (not surprising since it would only work on a '72). Mocal has a bunch of sizes, it would be pretty easy to get one to fit in there.

Any thoughts? Am I missing something?

Roger

It runs!!!
 

Glorious day yesterday! I fired it up and runs. I had to fix a minor gas leak at the pump, and one of the cam oil lines has a slight leak. Other than that, it runs great and everything appears to work, gauges, tranny, speedo, etc.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1368493446.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1368493486.jpg

Those that have purchased a used motor before can appreciate the great sense of relief when you first attempt to start it, and it starts, runs, and doesn't sound like a bunch of marbles bouncing around in a coffee can. (Thank you Weekend Rides!)

I have owned this car for 15 years. I have spent at least a dozen of those years dreaming about this day. I hope to have it back on the road by the end of the week.

I can't wait!

Roger

Its a great feeling when all those disparate pieces of metal get together and spring to life!
I suggest to change out the start-up oil soon after it gets to temp to check for debris and get a fresh start.

Exactly! You can see the case of Chevron 10W-30 sitting on the floor in the first pic ($24 at Costco!). That is only going in to "flush the system". After I drive it a bit and get it fully warmed up, allow the thermostats to open and send oil up to the cooler and back, I'll dump it, change the filter and put in some decent 20W-50.

Roger

Good to hear she's up and running. I know you will enjoy the extra torque and hosepower. I was not as lucky as you, the engine I bought needed a top end to fix the valve guides.
As far as cooling goes, I ran mine with a simple trombone and did not have any problem with oil temperatures on 90+ degree days.

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed! I guess I can't be totally sure until I get it out and drive it, especially for the gearbox. As far as cooling, I'm hoping the Carrera cooler in the fender will suffice. I'm not that concerned about the street, it will be more the track use that may stress things a bit. If not, I still have my Mocal cooler (which actually was 12AN, not 10AN as I thought) which I can put in the rear fender.

Funny little footnote to my engine swap story. I made the decision to purchase the 3.2 last fall while my wife was having back surgery. Literally, while she was under the knife, I was out in the waiting room exchanging e-mails with Rick at Weekend Rides. I just knew getting a 3.2 and LSD tranny would help her heal faster :D

She's going back in tomorrow for a follow-up surgery. I wonder what I could buy this time???

Roger

Roger

Initial impressions...
 

I have had a chance to drive the car a bit with the 3.2. Here are my initial impressions.

1. I think I really got a good motor and tranny. No smoke, no leaks, no weird noises. Runs well, shifts well.
2. I miss the sound of Webers and open exhaust. I'm running the stock muffler with a cat bypass, and holes cut into the stock airbox lid. It's like going from "Led Zeppelin" to "Pat Boone". I know this can be rectified with a muffler change (or delete!).
3. Not as much "grunt" as I expected. This is probably the gearing as much as anything. Not only does the '84 tranny have the 8:31 (vs 7:31 in my '72), first and second gears are also taller than the '72 tranny. This combined with a motor that has a rather high torque peak of 4800 rpm makes for a rather slow start.
4. At 4000 rpm, "all hell breaks loose". It's almost like a turbo car with nominal power up to 4K then it suddenly shoots to to the 6200 rev limiter like a rocket. Not what I expected, but fun. I think a SW chip will be headed my way soon.
5. I have never received a speeding ticket in a Porsche, in close to 25 yrs of ownership. I fear this record will be coming to an end soon. The combination of taller gearing and quietness is causing me to drive much faster than I used to.
6. I think this combination will be a blast at Road America!

Overall, very pleased. It was what I needed.

Roger

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1369414311.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1369414326.jpg

Roger we need a You Tube video of the 3.2 at high revs!! Glad you are enjoying our engine and transaxle.

Rick,

It really is a great motor and tranny, excellent oil pressure, no smoke, tranny shifts great. And what all you provided to me was incredibly complete and in good shape (wiring, DME, pump, tach, axles, etc.). It was actually a lot easier than I thought it would be.

Thanks again!

Roger

Update...
 

Rear wheel bearings: With the stock 3.2 muffler in place, versus my previous race mufflers, I started hearing a lot of other sounds that I had never heard before. One of these was a droning from the left rear. Turned out to be a wheel bearing. Suggestion to future readers; if your swapping your tranny/axles, you may want to consider replacing the rear wheel bearings while your in there, especially if they are over 10 yrs old. All is well now.

Oil pressure: Compared to my 2.4, this 3.2 has much higher oil pressure at idle and low revs. I run about 25-30 psi at idle, and 60-65 psi at 2500-3000. My 2.4 was close to 0 at idle (not that unusual for an early motor, so I hear), and then 30-40 in the 2500-3000 range. I think both motors are in the 80-100 psi range by 6K. (FYI - I had the cam line restrictors in both motors.)

Lack of power at low revs: As much as I have enjoyed the 3.2 swap overall, the power and drivability of the engine at low revs was lacking. At first I thought it was just the taller gearing. But after more research into the 3.2 DME history/operations, I determined that some changes were in order. I adjusted the idle mixture first. Turns out mine had been adjusted way too lean by someone previously, probably in an attempt to pass an emissions test. This made a tremendous improvement...for free! I also installed an aftermarket chip, which really livened up the throttle response below 3K. I don't want to start a chip discussion here, but again for future readers, the 84-86 3.2 DME has the least desirable engine mapping. You are well served to upgrade to either the 87-89 factory programs, or go with an aftermarket chip, IMHO.

I can't wait to get this car on the track, especially a long one like Road America!

Roger

>>>Lack of power at low revs...

The 3.2 doesn't make V8 torque, but I routinely start my 2800lb TurboLook in second gear and my 'should be tired' motor pulls strong from there; I find first gear way too tall for normal use other than when I'm starting on a hill.

Did you upgrade your '84 DME to use the 28pin EEPROM?

Chuck.H
'89 TurboLookTarga, 361k miles

I think part of problem may have been spending my first 15 years with the '72 7:31 tranny, and less than 2400 lbs. Not only was the R&P shorter, but so were 1st and 2nd. It's fine now. I can let the clutch out at idle now in 1st. That would not have worked before the mixture/chip change.

No I didn't go "all out" for the 28 pin/8K. However, I did upgrade from 2K to 4K. Feels very good now. I can't imagine this motor with my old gearbox...but it would've been quick off the line (until it broke).

Roger

First DE with the new drivetrain!
 

Just did my first DE with the new drivetrain. Fantastic! The first session was a bit uncomfortable. But considering that I hadn't been to any DEs in two years, not to this track (Blackhawk) in eight, and throw in a new motor and tranny, I wasn't surprised. By the second session, things started to click. I was always pleased with the handling and overall grip of the car, but the power was always lacking. Not any more. It really feels nicely balanced now. Motor ran great too, no hiccups, smoke, leaks. I was also happy to see that the oil temps never exceeded 230, and were usually not above 220 (ambient in the mid 80s). Tranny shifted beautifully. I could definitely feel the rear end hunker down more under deceleration with the LSD.

The one thing that this experience did highlight, is the need to move to a true track pad. I smoked the Hawk HP+ pads. I'll be using Hawk Blues for Road America in a couple weeks. I'll try some Motul 600 in place of the Super Blue as well.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1376417896.jpg

If you are going to be tracking the car just get some brake ducts to put air into the rotor assembly. This will greatly improve your pad and rotor life and prevent overcooking the brakes. I tracked my 71 targa for years on stock brakes and a Ferodo pad similar to the HP+. Never once had any issues with brakes after the cooling kits.

Glad to hear the car is performing well.

I know. I've been doing DEs with the car for almost 15 years. I think my issues last week were probably induced as much by my "rustiness" as it was the increased performance of the car. I know I was braking too early and too long for much of the day. The braking system is essentially an SC system, with As in front. The car weighs about 2400 wet. I guess I'm too cheap to pull the trigger on a proper brake cooling kit, and too lazy to fab one up myself! I installed the 993 cooling scoops on the a-arms a couple years ago. That really helped a lot.

I will be curious to see how it goes at Road America. I have a lot more experience with the car at that track than at Blackhawk. That will be a better venue to gauge the real change in overall performance. I know my terminal speeds will be higher. I think I used to hit around 115 before braking into turn 1. I have to assume with the taller 8:31 box and significantly more power behind it, I will be exceeding that. Likewise at turn 5 and at Canada. The brakes will be working harder. Hopefully the combination of the Blues and a better driver will suffice :D

Roger

I thought I'd give a little update on how my 3.2 conversion is treating me. In a word, "Awesome"!

Road America - I had it up at Road America over Labor Day. This was really a great place to gauge the difference in performance, since I have been doing DEs up there pretty consistently over the last 15 years. I did 5x25 min sessions. I think by my 3rd or fourth session, I was already turning lap times about 3 seconds faster than my best ever lap time. And I really wasn't pushing it very hard, probably 8/10ths. I was able to "comfortably" extract a lot more performance from the car. I know I wasn't working hard because unlike all the previous times there, my arms and upper body were not really sore at all the next day. All in all, that was kind of indicative of the whole experience that weekend, "comfort". Using the Hawk Blue/Black combo also was a huge improvement. No brake issues at all. Actually, they were biting so hard, I was locking up quite a bit till I got used to this. I think this was the first time I have taken this car to a DE and never had to twist a wrench all weekend. Flawless!

Road Trip, SCCA Run Offs - We (my son and I) took the 911 back up to Elkhart Lake this past weekend to watch the Run Offs. This was the first real "road trip" since the drive-train swap. Again, flawless! Its nice to be in 5th gear and just hit the throttle to pass. No downshifting needed. I was also curious to see how it would handle cold starting, after sitting out all night in temps reaching down into the high 30s. No problem. Fired right up, chugged for a few seconds, then settled into a nice high idle around 1800 rpm, gradually came down as it warmed up a bit. As much as I sometimes miss the sound of my M&K race mufflers from my old 2.4, this was not one of those times. It was actually nice to cruise steadily around 3000-3200 rpms and listen to the stereo for a change. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE 911 engine sounds. But for a 2+ hour trip, a little "rock-n-roll" doesn't hurt either.

Oh, I should also mention that in close to 2000 miles of driving, including two DE events, the motor has consumed less than a quart of oil (probably more like a pint).

Roger

Seems like you found a good engine for the conversion. Always nice to hear when things come together.