Speed bleeder size problem -- Carrera

logician · 07-16-2002, 07:19 PM

Hi,

Has anyone tried installing speed bleeder in a Carrera? I'm having problems with sizes.

The recommended sizes from Pelican Parts and manufacturer are: SB8125LL and SB7100, front and back respectively. However, these don't seem to work with my brakes. The SB8125LL seems to fit the back. The fronts seem to be at least as large as the SB8125, but I haven't yet pulled them, so they might be even larger thread. It definitely isn't the SB7100 thread.

Turns out its a bit of a mess to pull the bleeders because of all the brake fluid that drips out. This simple fix is starting to be a big pain in the butt! Any help would be greatly appreciated.

-Juan

pbs911 · pbs911's Garage

Run a search for speed bleeders. Their web site should be on tehr package. This will show you the proper application for your car. Mine went on no problem and I love them.

logician · 07-16-2002, 07:55 PM

Hi,

> Run a search for speed bleeders. Their web site should be on
> tehr package. This will show you the proper application for
> your car. Mine went on no problem and I love them

I did that. Their information is same as Pelican, and apparently wrong. Anybody out there used Speed bleeder on an 84-89 Carrera? If so, what sizes did you use?

-Juan

don911 · don911's Garage

Well crap....my speed bleeders just arrived earlier in the week. I was going to install them next weekend. Sounds like they may not work.

logician · 07-16-2002, 08:39 PM

Hi Don,

> Well crap....my speed bleeders just arrived earlier in the week.
> I was going to install them next weekend. Sounds like they
> may not work.

Which parts did they send you? Where they SB8125LL and SB7100? Note that SB8125LL is different than part SB8125.

-Juan

logician · 07-16-2002, 08:56 PM

Hi,

From Speed bleeder install notes:

> Speed Bleeders are made from one of these four hex stock sizes...
>
> 1/4" hex, 5/16" hex, 3/8" hex, 7/16" hex
>
> This also applies to metric sizes. This means that metric
> wrenches will not work with Speed Bleeder even though it
> might have a metric sized thread. You have to use an inch
> wrench or SAE wrench size. The reason is that metric hex
> stock is not readily available at a reasonable price in this
> country.

The 5/16" size is very close to 8mm, but just a little smaller. Great, I'm starting to think these speed bleeders are a hack: wrong sizes from manufacturer and mixed metric and english tolerances. I like the idea in theory, but product seems to be poorly executed. What else is wrong with these things?

-Juan

Tim L · 07-17-2002, 09:28 AM

I installed them in my 84 Carrera and the front and back take the same speed bleeder

Tim

pbs911 · pbs911's Garage

The 5/16" size is very close to 8mm, but just a little smaller.

I use a 8mm wrench on the Speed Bleeders and have had absolutely no problem. If the US size hex heads were not posted here I would have never known.

Neilk · 07-17-2002, 10:36 AM

I looked at speed bleeder's website to see how they work and I can't see what the advantage of buying them over using a pressure bleeder with stock valves.

I have heard many people say, rightly or wrongly, that pushing the brake pedal all the way to the floor is bad for the MC seals. If you are going to bleed several cars, a pressure bleeder seems more economical and faster. Pressurize the tank and start bleeding.

Can someone enlighten me if I am wrong?

gchappel · 07-17-2002, 11:07 AM

I installed speedbleeders on my 85 carrera a couple of years ago. I do not remember the size or stock number, but I do remember that 2 of the bleeders- I think it was the front, did not fit. Call them, they are very easy to work with over the phone and they corrected the problem.
I bled brakes a couple of times a month using the push the pedal to the floor technique- before and after speedbleeders. Sure enough, after about 2 months I developed a leak at the Master Cylinder- coincedence?? I don't really know, but now that I have a new MC I make sure to bleed this way every once in a while.
I use both speedbleeders and the Pressure bleed system. Basically when I am at home and have the time, I use the pressure system- works great. I still use the speed bleeders at the track- heck if I have to I can bleed the fronts in 5min, don't even pull the wheels anymore. I "trust" the pressure system more, but to be honest the pedal feels great either way- just be careful as the thread sealent they use- at least with AP600 fluid only lasts a couple of bleeds, then you have to put more on or you will get an air leak past the threads.
gary

Dan Owens · 07-17-2002, 11:08 AM

Juan,

Before you put them on if you depress the pedal slightly maybe an inch or two and hold it there, but not pressed down all the way, the fluid will not drip or run out nor will much air get sucked back into the line. A little will come out but not much. If you find a short piece of wood like a 2 x 4 thats just a little longer than the distance from you brake pedal (at rest) and the front of your seat mounting track you can wedge it in and it will hold the pedal down just a bit while you swap the bleed screws. You'll still need to bleed when your done but it's much cleaner.

Dan O

logician · 07-17-2002, 12:42 PM

Hi,

Thanks for all the feedback. It would seem that the recommended size for '84-89 is indeed incorrect at both Pelican Parts and Speedbleeder.com. They recommend SB7100 for rear, but in fact, the size is SB8125LL.

My original reason to want speed bleeders was so that I could bleed easily at the track with one person, and without dragging around the pressure bleeder. Also, Wayne says that even if you have a pressure bleeder, you still need to use the peddle method to get the last bits of air out. However, after going through this whole thing, I think I'm going to not use the speed bleeder valves. Here are my reasons:

1) Since I don't have the right size valves, I had to put the stock ones back in.

2) I really don't like the english sized hex head, even though it's pretty close to 8mm metric size.

3) Turns out that if you use the bleeders frequently, and I would for track usage, you need to reapply the sealer on the threads or risk sucking air back into the system. Pulling the valves out regularly to seal them is a pain.

4) I can't really risk having the thread sealant leak at the track, and have the bleeding operation actually add air to the system!

5) Practically speaking, you need two people anyway with the peddle method, even with speed bleeder, because you want to look at the fluid coming out and evaluate how much air might have been introduced into each wheel.

It's not that much of a problem to enlist someone's help at the track, and I would rather do that than risk the problems that the Speed Bleeder might introduce. At home, I would simply use the pressure bleeder when I'm alone.

BTW, for those of you that use the pressure bleeder, do you actually fill it with brake fluid? I find it better to keep the pressure tank empty and simply use the it only to pressurize the brake system. This method requires that you keep an eye on the fluid reservoir and refill it once or twice per wheel. The advantage is that it is less prone to contamination, since the new fluid goes directly from the container to the reservoir without going through the pressure tank. I worry about the little bit of old fluid that might be at the bottom of the tank or in some of the tubing. It is also a little less messy for not having to clean the pressure tank.

-Juan

Jorgeman · Jorgeman's Garage

Juan--I've done my brakes twice now with the pressure bleeder--I always pour the whole can into the pressure bottle and then just hit each wheel for however much it takes to clear out the old fluid as well as any bubbles. Don't forget to clamp off the overflow! I DO NOT do any pedal bleeding in conjunction with the pressure bleeder and always achieve a hard pedal. After finishing --I return the remainder to the original can and CAREFULLY seal it with double layer Saran Wrap under the cap. I compress the sides of the can before tightening (oil can pop) and have found the cans retain the seal until I again need some fluid. For safety sake, I use the remainder on the RV and the Toyota BUT I believe the method of sealing works because the can will pop out months later when I again crack the cap.

gchappel · 07-17-2002, 04:08 PM

I have used the pressure bleeding system for about 2 years. For the first 1.5 yrs I just used air to pressurize the system, and added fluid to the reservoir when it got low. I used a drain bottle that was smaller than the reservoir- so when the drain bottle was full, it was time to add fluid- that way you couldn't accidentally drain the fluid down too far. Anyway, about 6 months ago I tried it with the fluid in the pressure system and have not looked back- it is just sooooooo much easier and time efficient. I just add a pint, and drain that much out the 4 calipers- you can watch the level easily on the last caliper-front drivers side- and just stop when the fluid is at the correct level. Easy.
Gary