Stiff Torsion Bars and No/light Swaybars - Car rides really nice!

[VFR750]

I have been running my car with 22/29mm torsion bars and NO swaybars for the past week. It rides really nice! And the body roll isn't too bad.

Anyone else done this where they went with really stiff springs/torsion bars and intentionally ran soft/no swaybars?

I had heard this was actually a preferred setup, where the swaybars were only used to fine tune balance between understeer/oversteer. It seems that the body roll is OK for street driving. And without the swaybars, rough pavement is less of a bone jarring experience.

BTW, I will be reinstalling the swaybars, once the rear mounts are repaired, but now I think I will run them full soft on the street, and full (tuned) on the track.

[wayner]

Here is a good thread
Effect of changing torsion bars compared to sway bars?

[VFR750]

Thanks.

I skimmed it; interesting read. Seems I am not alone in my thoughts. Or maybe, I learned it here and don't remember. Hard to keep track.

[roblav]

Anti-roll devices decrease total grip but can be used to increase overall balance. I've played with this a lot on formula cars but not so much on the Porsche. A better method to decrease roll is to lower the CG if you can.

If you do not have a limited slip diff, then you really don't want too much anti-roll in the rear or you will end up with too much inside wheel spin while accelerating out of slower corners. If I was to give up racing formula cars for the tin top 911, I'd start by removing rear anti-roll and increasing spring rate at the rear.

For the front end, too much anti-roll will limit your ability to trail brake into corners. Too much of the front weight will be transferred to the outside front wheel resulting in decreased traction under braking. My experience with formula cars is to remove the RARB and adjust the FARB (in the cockpit) as track conditions require - and to control the balance using spring rates.

[trond]

Saab Turbos came without any sway bars until 1987 or 88. My 87 without was fine that way except at high speeds where it was unstableuntil I added sway bars. it felt unbalanced. The rationale I believe was no sways are better for ultimate grip on rough roads

[ClickClickBoom]

More brain smoke here:
Chassis - SAE BOOKSTORE

[IROC]

Originally Posted by VFR750

And without the swaybars, rough pavement is less of a bone jarring experience.

In theory, sway bars shouldn't have any real effect on ride quality. They only come into play when the wheel travel differs side-to-side. I suppose rough pavement could cause this differential wheel travel, but if the wheels are traveling that far due to bumpy roads, I would think the small effect of the sway bars on ride quality would be in the noise range.

My car sounds very similar to yours. I ran without a rear sway bar for a while when one of my rear mounts broke and I couldn't tell a difference in ride quality.

[combatic]

Originally Posted by VFR750

I have been running my car with 22/29mm torsion bars and NO swaybars for the past week. It rides really nice! And the body roll isn't too bad.

Anyone else done this where they went with really stiff springs/torsion bars and intentionally ran soft/no swaybars?

I had heard this was actually a preferred setup, where the swaybars were only used to fine tune balance between understeer/oversteer. It seems that the body roll is OK for street driving. And without the swaybars, rough pavement is less of a bone jarring experience.

BTW, I will be reinstalling the swaybars, once the rear mounts are repaired, but now I think I will run them full soft on the street, and full (tuned) on the track.

I am running 22/28 T bars in a 2150lbs early car with no sways. I intend to add sways but I was pleasantly surprised by how flat the car travels through the corners! I think the lightness of the car, it being lowered and the upped Torsion bar rate are to blame as a trifecta

I am about to take the car on a 2500 mile road trip so we will see how she does!

BTW- the word on the street from people who know is that the rough set-up guideline for 911's is the following- BIG torsion bars & LITTLE sway bars (light settings) -OR- Little (stock) T-bars and BIG sways. The latter giving you more compliance in day to day driving and may have advantages on more uneven surfaces(slow driving) and the prior is more dedicated to high speed driving generally. As far as fine tuning for your driving ...I have no idea, I am learning as I go with set-up. My cars focus is aggressive street/track with little amenities for comfort.

[Flieger]

I approve this message (stiff primary springs and soft anti-roll bars).