I'm saddened by what I've seen on this board.

[Efrain68912]

Since I'm a kid with a 912, I've gotten pretty used to the Porsche attitude. You know, 912 = N.A.R.P., kid = don't understand/respect Porsches. When I found this technical forum, one of the things that I liked a lot about it was the fact that that arrogance was not prevalent. Sure, there are always a few people around who try to spoil the party, but for the most part everyone just seemed enthusiastic about the marque.

Lately, it seems like many of the people in this forum have become almost an elitist, arrogant group who greet things with insults and sarcasm.

A few threads come to mind. pjv911 was told that he was being given two 911s for free, and he decided to share it with us. Now when the middleman doesn't come through for him, everyone comes down on Kurt, insulting him, some going as far as to insinuate that he was lying about the whole thing. People responding to the thread wind up insulting...his spelling? The high school he might have gone to? WTF?

Zip is placing a 996 on order and asks for opinions on color and options. He gets a bunch of extremely sarcastic responses that range from "996's are not 911s", "you should get a Cayanne", to then accusing him of being someone else, a "troll". What did this have anything to do with his question? I know threads tend to verge off topic sometimes, but this just became insulting. Come on guys, get serious.

I'm an active member of the So Cal 912 group, and have met quite a few of the RGruppe guys (who, by the way, welcomed my 912 and I), and I have never heard anyone talk this way or act that immature, regardless of what they were driving.

This isn't a slam on the whole community, or on Pelican. I've met and respect Wayne very much. I've met a few Pelicanheads, and none of them have displayed the level of arrogance and immaturity that I have seen here lately.

[Targa Dude]

Efrain.. all I can say is well said.. ..so true..

"Can't we all just get along" RK


Jorge (Targa Dude)

[curtisaa]

It is so true...what you exbound. There are some on this board, that don't accept the, " no attitudes allowed" as we do in the Rgruppe. Your words are very well understood, by those of us that are ONLy here because of our passions. As, you already know, you are accepted by the the Rgruppe and all of those who understand our creedo.

As the sayong goes, "Effrain, you can ride with US anytime"..

Curtis
Rgruppe #0042

[Bill Douglas]

Excuse me Efrain this is a 911 BBS NOT a 912 BBS, now piss off!

Just joking, yep some of the guys get a bit hyped up at times but no one means any harm I'm sure. Possibly when Nostatic starts talking about his wife, but not at any other times.

Enjoy our company for what we are worth.

[kstar]

Can't have a perfect community with all posts to one's specific preference, IMO.

The overwhelming majority of posters and posts are mature and proper, IMO.

Walk softly, wear a thick skin and carry a big stick!

Just like a t.v. show one doesn't like so is a post/poster one finds objectionable: turn the channel and move along.

My Pelican "glass" is much more than half full.

Best,

Kurt

[jenmcd]

I was also taken back by some of the comments. Drive and love what you like. Just remember that this is just a BB. Rennlist is much worse as far as sarcasm goes. IMHO of course

Keith

[Keith S]

This, of course, is one of the 'joys' of BB systems andd the Internet in general. Weak, boring, inadequate peeople suddenly find themselves in a position where they can put their stupidity on show to the whole universe, while hiding behind their computer all the while.

Many years ago (in fact it was my first ever introduction to the Internet) I was told that someone was bad-mouthing me on a BB. I asked for a print out and discovered someone having a real 'go' about me and my professional ethics (such as they are, being a journalist ). I was p*ssed and decided to taake action. To cut a long story short, I won the libel case against the guy and he had to sell his beloved car to pay his legal fees. All because he wanted to make an ass of himslf on a bulletin board.

The one thing to remember is that, if you go to a Porsche show, 99% of people there are great guys – the 1% who aren't stand out a mile. They're the ones who lose out in the end.

Heck, even the RGruppe guys speak to me and I only drive a car with impact bumpers and some funny little mid-engined thing!

[Kevin Stewart]

Hey just love the Porsche thing, my wife says why dont you join the Porsche club, I hate to say it but many are a little snooty, and to makes things a little worse is that im a professional Musician, with kinda long hair, enough said! What I am saying is that most of the guys are really cool here, and most if they feel that they have insulted you will send a personal e-mail with an apology, join the other club on this bbs, those of us that prefer to avoid the guys you are talking about, but also understand that many of these guys have met and are really punnin each other and some times someone else will jump in and forget how to get the punch line out with the writen word and not hand signals, boom then we have some one with thier feelings hurt, remember the 914 20 years ago was not a real Porsche well know the same guys that called them anything but a Porsche are collecting them and racing them, I had a 912 and the 4's have more Porsche heritage then the 6 as the first production Porsches were 4's, so like I said join the other club, its the club of guys that will always own a porsche because of all the joy it brings, not just a passing fad for a year or so, then off to a vette or whatever, and you will find the guys Im talking about dreamed of Porsche's when they were little and still wake every day with the first thought, hum, ill go see the Porsche before I say hi to the wife, priorities man, priorities, Kevin

[john70t]

Perhaps Wayne could break up the board into several discussion groups to furthur subjegate future inquirys:

1. The techno know it all (and whom I'm very much admirative of ) specifications-only niche which would contain all cross references of parts #'s and model historys only.
2. The in-crowd "I know you from..., have you yet..." personal connections cross reference board.
3. The street/track race groups dedicated to the perfection of more power.
4. The sometimes rude sometimes timid, new to the board, not sure how to contribute in a positive way misc people(of which I belong).

There are a lot of people who joke around on the board and it should'nt be taken too seriously . The majority are middle class pre 90s owners and everyone has their own view on the definition, but thats not to build a wall aound the subject and say these are the positive absolute definitions of the car. Some modify, some purist.......all Porsche.

As an old teacher once said: see the back of the hand and see the front, but it's still the same hand.

[speeder]

I wouldn't get too sad, Efrain. It's like the old joke about "perfect democracy"; ie. "the wonderful thing about the internet is that anyone can say anything they want. The problem with the internet is that anyone....."

All in all this is a great board. Once in a while something touches a nerve for someone, or sentiments are misunderstood, and then a little flaming happens. But nothing compared to other BBSs, from what I've heard. Take care.

[Wayne 962]

With about 10,000 members of this BBS, you're more than likely to get a small share of butt-heads and a-holes. It comes with the territory, and is part of the character of the Internet. I think that these people speak for themselves, and actually embarrass themselves (they don't realize it) when they post really stupid comments.

That said, since this is an open forum, there is nothing that can be done about it. Like freedom and democracy, this BBS, has some inherent problems that will always be a part of the medium. If you like to ski, you'll have to expect that you'll get cold once and a while.

Too bad that I have to respond to things like this on the very expensive cruise ship connection from Malta...

-Wayne

[911nut]

Originally posted by Efrain68912

Zip is placing a 996 on order and asks for opinions on color and options. He gets a bunch of extremely sarcastic responses that range from "996's are not 911s", "you should get a Cayanne", to then accusing him of being someone else, a "troll". What did this have anything to do with his question? I know threads tend to verge off topic sometimes, but this just became insulting. Come on guys, get serious.

All I said the other day was that I wanted a 996 (and a 993 and a Pantera and a Testarossa and a GT 40, for that matter) in addition to the 911 that I already have and that got greeted with silence.

Efrain, wherever you go in this world, even on this board, you will meet some people who won't like you if you don't think like them.

[Jim Richards]

Hi Efrain,

It's nice to hear members speak up like you did to raise/maintain the overall level of civilization of this community. Thanks for noticing this trend and hopefully setting it back on the right track. And, by the way, 912s ARE real Porsches. Probably one of the best balanced ones, as well.

Regards,

[Rustbucket]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts


Too bad that I have to respond to things like this on the very expensive cruise ship connection from Malta...

-Wayne

Yes...much too bad.
Maybe one of us could swap places with you Wayne, so that you can come back early and monitor the board more closely?

Just an offer.

[MotoSook]

Winderful thing about forums such as this, is if you don't respond to the negative comments, the poster never knows if you read it or not. If the posts was submited to inspire negative reaction, but he gets not reation, guess what,....the a-hole doesn't exist.

[cegerer]

Gimme a break. I just went back and read thru that thread and you guys must have REALLY thin skin to consider any of those posts "insulting". Most have the appropriate " " or whatever, so don't take them too seriously.

If this forum were limited to dry technical answers, with no dissenting opinions, humor or sarcasm allowed, it would be one very boring place to hang out. Maybe all of the replies should have followed this format:

"Dear Mr. Zip,

The 996 - a most excellent choice in fine automobiles. Please consider these options:

#1259
#7755
#8271
#1188
#6577

Color: 1255

Thank you for this humble opportunity to assist you and your lovely wife in the purchase of your new automobile.

Respectfully submitted, Loyal 911 Forum Member #1446. "

Don't confuse attitude with opinion. -- Curt

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

I agree with you, Efrain. There are people everywhere who have to prove that they are more of an idiot that others would ever have imagined possible. Just remember: Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level where they have more experience and you will almost always lose to experience!!

Just my not-so-humble experience.

Now I'm going back to put my sixth grade East Texas education (and Louisiana college education) back to work and cause more product to be manufactured.

It's correct that some people have been a little harsh in their comments. I agree that we should try to be more friendly and less sarcastic. However sometimes I think that some posters actually asks for it themselves.

One can present the same question in different ways. Reactions will most likely follow the way the question was presented.

[Rick Lee]

Anyone who doesn't appreciate a 912 is not the kind of person whose respect you want anyway. And as for Zip's 996, at least he's buying it and not leasing it. I don't care how rich he is - he's dropping a ton of cash for very serious ride - not breaking the lease on a Lexus to try out that new Poooorsh.

But as the great Sgt. Hulka once said, "Lighten up, Francis."

Efrain,
I'm not sure that I agree with you that the posters are trending toward arrogant. Having watched Pelican since early 2001, I've seen several irritating/highly opinionated people appear and then disappear just as quickly, or they settle in and become part of the fray. In the past weeks, there have been a couple of threads where posters either misunderstood a response or took something personally and struck back. I find these as more the exception than the rule. As for the Zip and the 996 thing, well the board members here are highly biased to air cooled 911's. I didn't read that particular thread, but I expect most of the comments were made in fun. After all, that's what it's all about.

I guess what I'm saying, is please don't get discouraged about the quality of the Pelican 911 BBS. People like you and most of the other members here, that remain objective, want to learn more about these cars and want to enjoy the banter here will always win out over the occasional trouble-makers. All just my opines though.
Mark