1976 911 Carrera 3

[DGriz]

Hi all! I am hoping that you can help me assess a potential project purchase.

In the past I have restored 50's trucks, 60's mustangs, 70's Alfa Romeos - and have had a friend who is a Porsche enthusiast on the lookout for a 911 project for me.

He called last week to report that he had just purchased a '76 911 Carrera 3 targa that might be a good project for me.

My net searches say that the Carrera 3 was produced in 76 & 77 for Europe only. Where US 911s got 2.7s, this car was a somewhat like an early SC in that it got the 3.0 engine.

He says that the Carrera 3 is sought-after by European Porsche enthusiasts.

It's been in a garage for a long time. The fuel injection system is gummed up an needs a rebuild.

The body appears pretty straight and rust-free. There is some rust in a front pan - presumably from a battery acid leak. Originally Speedway green, the car has been repainted an ivy green.

The interior is fairly good black, with sport seats.

Wheels are cookie cutters, where I think that Fuchs would be correct.

I anticipate that I'll have to:

1. Have the fuel injection rebuilt
2. Repaint the car the original color
3. Recover the dash
4. Replace the cookie cutters with Fuchs.

Asking price is $12,500 as is. This price seems fair to me.

1. What do you think my costs could be for the above work?
2. What do you think the car, when work is properly completed, will be worth?

Thanks so much for your input. I really like the car and would like to undertake the project. But as a newbie to Porsches, I'm going to need to outsource this. I don't want to get badly upside down on this either....

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq24/dickson746/photo2_zpse4da346e.jpg

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq24/dickson746/photo1_zps7bf39796.jpg

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq24/dickson746/interior_zpse7d95fb7.jpg

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq24/dickson746/photo2_zpsb71a3542.jpg

Thanks - Dickson

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by DGriz

Hi all! I am hoping that you can help me assess a potential project purchase.

In the past I have restored 50's trucks, 60's mustangs, 70's Alfa Romeos - and have had a friend who is a Porsche enthusiast on the lookout for a 911 project for me.

He called last week to report that he had just purchased a '76 911 Carrera 3 targa that might be a good project for me.

My net searches say that the Carrera 3 was produced in 76 & 77 for Europe only. Where US 911s got 2.7s, this car was a somewhat like an early SC in that it got the 3.0 engine.

He says that the Carrera 3 is sought-after by European Porsche enthusiasts.

It's been in a garage for a long time. The fuel injection system is gummed up an needs a rebuild.

The body appears pretty straight and rust-free. There is some rust in a front pan - presumably from a battery acid leak. Originally Speedway green, the car has been repainted an ivy green.

The interior is fairly good black, with sport seats.

Wheels are cookie cutters, where I think that Fuchs would be correct.

I anticipate that I'll have to:

1. Have the fuel injection rebuilt
2. Repaint the car the original color
3. Recover the dash
4. Replace the cookie cutters with Fuchs.

Asking price is $12,500 as is. This price seems fair to me.

1. What do you think my costs could be for the above work?
2. What do you think the car, when work is properly completed, will be worth?

Thanks so much for your input. I really like the car and would like to undertake the project. But as a newbie to Porsches, I'm going to need to outsource this. I don't want to get badly upside down on this either....

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq24/dickson746/photo2_zpse4da346e.jpg

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq24/dickson746/photo1_zps7bf39796.jpg

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq24/dickson746/interior_zpse7d95fb7.jpg

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq24/dickson746/photo2_zpsb71a3542.jpg

Thanks - Dickson

6 & 7 x15 Cookie cutters were the stock wheel, options were 6&7 x15 Fuchs, 7&8 x15 Fuchs

The headlight squirters are not original, they have been updated to the smaller ones used on '80s SC

The front chin was probably added later, the factory only sold spoilers in f/r sets

otherwise it looks pretty original.

Rust is going to be the big issue along w/ DOT and EPA releases if the car is to be registered in the US

[dporsche74]

C3 had all the extra stuff before the SC
ie RS flares. 7x8 fuchs, chin spoiler . big port heads, etc..
very rare too 479 in 76 and 646 in 77
ill take it if you want to pass on it


thanks

[Targalid]

I think it's a nice looking car. Once it is driveable, i.e., when you clean out the fuel system, you won't really need to do anything else except maybe change the tires. I guarantee you will be the only kid on the block that had one! That is a rare car with several really nice features.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by dporsche74

C3 had all the extra stuff before the SC
ie RS flares. 7x8 fuchs, chin spoiler . big port heads, etc..
very rare too 479 in 76 and 646 in 77
ill take it if you want to pass on it


thanks

RS flares- standard

7x8 fuchs- there were 2 7&8 x16 Fuchs options, 1 w/ 185/70 and 215/60 tires the other w/ 205/50 & 225/50 tires and a modified speedometer, this was in addition to the other 6&7 x15 Fuchs option mentioned above

chin spoiler -optional w/ one of 2 different rear wings, 3 if you count the difference between an AC and non AC wing

big port heads - standard

the crankcase was a version of the aluminum 930 3.0 turbo case but the crank/flywheel and rods were all right from the 2.7RS/S

cams were the same as later used on SC but were advanced from what the later SC's used

[CountD]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Rust is going to be the big issue along w/ DOT and EPA releases if the car is to be registered in the US

Rust will not be that much of an issue if it has been here for awhile - the car is galvanized. You do not need DOT and EPA releases for the car because it is exempt under the 25-year rule (for both), but it will probably need to be smogged depending on which state you are in (in California you would have to). If it already has a US title which it probably does it's good to go.

Also plan on:

1) Rubber brake lines and/or new master cylinder
2) New gas lines (seriously, for insurance reasons)
3) The gas tank may or may not be bad (buy a new one here)
4) New injectors are worth it (I did this, and it made a big difference)
5) Pedal cluster rebuild with bronze bushings

After you go through the CIS, brakes, pedals (for safety), and misc think it will be an easy $1,500 to $2000 for this stuff. Hopefully the front pan is superficial and does not need a complete replacement. Where is the car?

[Bill Jennings]

Dickson,
It took me 4 years to find my C3 (I was specifically looking for a C3) as they are rare, quick (200BHP) and lighter than the later SC. I paid close to $27000 for mine and it is not perfect by any means. When compared with any SC in the same condition the C3 will always be worth more and more sought after. The car is also eligable for entry into Historic racing in the UK and Australia not sure about the USA though. For more info check out the Carrera 3.0 registry at Carrera 3.0 Registry | Porsche 911 Carrera 3.0

I know I'm biased but buy it, it deserves a good home.

Cheers
Bill

[jsveb]

If it is in a descent shape. I'd buy it.

Drives fantastic.

[dporsche74]

What i always liked about the 76 Carrera is the engine number is 666XXXX lol

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Rust is going to be the big issue along w/ DOT and EPA releases if the car is to be registered in the US

Rust is definitiely going to be an issue. That one looks tired.

The car is old enough that EPA and DOT releases are not needed.

Personally, I'd suggest a coupe over a targa.

JR

[r-mm]

Not to mention really cool color - do you have the code? Looks like moss or granite green metallic but I don't believe those were offered in 76. According to the Authenticity book the greens in 76 were:
Irish Green M3
Apple (Sebring Green) P6
Lime Green N8
Oak Green Metallic Y4
Ice Green Y8

[ivangene]

the color is the bomb !!

really cool!

[javadog]

Originally Posted by r-mm

Not to mention really cool color - do you have the code? Looks like moss or granite green metallic but I don't believe those were offered in 76. According to the Authenticity book the greens in 76 were:
Irish Green M3
Apple (Sebring Green) P6
Lime Green N8
Oak Green Metallic Y4
Ice Green Y8

Originally Posted by DGriz

Originally Speedway green, the car has been repainted an ivy green.

[DGriz]

My buddy told me that the car was originally Speedway Green - his favorite Porsche color. It's loud, but I think a very cool color on this period car.



I too would prefer a coupe, but beggers cannot be choosers when dealing in rarity I suppose.

Thanks for the advice.

[86911tlcab]

i would buy it...

if the paint is good...why worry about the original color for now...maybe someday after you drive it and enjoy it...windows out paint job can be quite expensive(4-5k)...

a set of fuchs (6/7) if you want to change them are about 900 bucks (plus tires...another 800).

rebuilding the CIS can be easy as taking it all apart, cleaning it up really well...and putting it back together with new hoses, and rubber and it may work great...or it could be quite expensive if you begin replacing components...one option is to find a used CIS coming from a running engine...they can be had for 4-5 hundred...and frankly you can sell your own in parts for as much.

Dash can be recovered for a 100 piece of leather and some heat/pulling and time (do it yourself)...or 3-400 for a used dash...or 6-700 to have someone recover it for you. have to take out the window, so factor in that cost (300 bucks to have someone else do it, plus price of a gasket-100)

so all in all...you could sink 10k into this car easily if you want to...making it a 22k car...or you can verify and replace as needed all the brake lines and fuel lines...pull the CIS out and take a shot at cleaning it all out by soaking in an appropriate mixture...and replace the tires and have yourself a great little unique car for 2-3k over the asking price...

if there isnt any major rust...i think it would be a great project...

[javadog]

Originally Posted by DGriz

I too would prefer a coupe, but beggers cannot be choosers when dealing in rarity I suppose.

A Carrera 3 is rare in the US, but not impossible to find. There are a few coupes out there for sale from time to time. An early US SC ('78 or '79) can have a similar feel for the average buyer. Not the same car, but not vastly different if you are new to a 911. Plenty of those out there...

JR

[Josh D]

A couple more mentionables is that it looks to have pressure fed tensioners and the fan has been upgrated from the 5 blade to 11 blade.

I would definetely check engine type to verify it's a genuine Carrera 3.0.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by CountD

Rust will not be that much of an issue if it has been here for awhile - the car is galvanized. You do not need DOT and EPA releases for the car because it is exempt under the 25-year rule (for both), but it will probably need to be smogged depending on which state you are in (in California you would have to). If it already has a US title which it probably does it's good to go.

Also plan on:

1) Rubber brake lines and/or new master cylinder
2) New gas lines (seriously, for insurance reasons)
3) The gas tank may or may not be bad (buy a new one here)
4) New injectors are worth it (I did this, and it made a big difference)
5) Pedal cluster rebuild with bronze bushings

After you go through the CIS, brakes, pedals (for safety), and misc think it will be an easy $1,500 to $2000 for this stuff. Hopefully the front pan is superficial and does not need a complete replacement. Where is the car?

galvanized panels will rust too.

I bought mine in '76 and imported it privately, it has been a garage queen most winters all it's life but there have still been rust throughs just ahead of the headlights and the front smile

My previous 911 was a '72 that had been driven in NE winters, all the inner panels were galvanized and about 50% had to be replaced when I added RS hips to the car at age 4. The cars that lived most of their lives in northern Europe were subject to at least as much road salt as my '72

I'll take your word on the 25 yr rule currently, but when I brought mine over it was impounded and shipped to a shop in Boston for changes to make it compliant w/ DoT regs(door crash beams, lights and glass were the primary changes) and an EPA waiver. At that time there was no waiver of DoT regs but there was for the motor which didn't need to be altered in any way.

I keep both the DoT and EPA docs w/ the ownership papers in my files, just in case.

[javadog]

The EPA and DOT regs are not relevant for cars older than 25 years. Actually, one of them is irrelevant after 23 years, but I don't remember which one. Many states, like Oklahoma, couldn't care less anyway. The biggest problem can be dealing with a DMV that is clueless about the federal regs.

Back to the rust, it is an issue on any 911, if you take it apart. There are places that got no paint and the galvanizing is a sacrificial coating. It doesn't last forever. New paint, like on the car in this thread, can hide a lot of problems. Looking at the corrosion on the metal surfaces in the engine bay, I can tell this car didn't live in a bone dry climate all of its life. It will have many needs, so it needs to be looked at thoroughly by someone who knows what they are looking for.

JR

[javadog]

One other caveat. It's not unlikely that any mileage accumulated on the car by the time of its importation will not be reflected on the current odometer.

JR