no blow cold AC 930

[dogman]

86/930/turbo Stealer checked AC and told me it has to be drained and re charged , they dont do it !Stuff in it is banned and has to be charged with new enviro freindly ! Call ac guy and he says he has to get a kit to do it , never called back yet ! Anyone help and can i do it and whats required ?

[wrinkledpants]

See below link for the 134 kit to convert your car (scroll to bottom).

Griffiths supplies a range of air conditioning components for your Porsche 911,911s,911t,911 turbo, and 930, such as: Porsche air conditioning upgrades, Porsche air conditioning improvements and updates: Porsche barrier hoses and hose sets, Porsche c

[964TargaC2]

at minimum you will need to evacuate the system (need a vacuum pump) , install a new receiver drier and change the valves to accept the R134 refrigerant. you probably have R12 Freon in there which is no longer produced

I would also guess that your evaporator is leaking (they all do) and that is no fun to replace.

I am only guessing but since you asked if you could do it...you probably cant..that said if you have the attitude and proper equipment (vacuum pump, new receiver drier, valves and R134 gauges and the gas itself you could read up on it and try a DIY

[wrinkledpants]

Maybe post up where you live, what your driving habits are (city, hwy, etc), how much you need a functional AC setup, and what you're willing to spend. It's pretty scalable as far as spending money and what you get.

If you want reliable AC - meaning you'd recharge as much as you would a normal car, you'll want to upgrade to barrier hoses, as well. Otherwise, you're system will leak through the hoses over time and you'll constantly be recharging it (states this in the manual). Just depends on your budget. I'd say a grand in parts (no labor) gets you pretty good AC for HWY use (new drier, barrier hoses, r134 conversion kit, and either an additional condenser in the rear wheel well or an upgraded front condenser + fan from kuehl). It's in the city where you're moving slow and idling a lot that you have to start doing a lot more work.

[rusnak]

R12 is still made. I would stay with it.

[wwest]

Most any certified A/C shop can do the conversion for less than $200.00, but absence a method to overcome a factory design flaw you will need to recharge the system at least every 2 years.

As a possible fix have your selected shop install a trinary pressure switch to control the compressor clutch and then wire the extra function to power the front condensor fan 24/7, even with the ihgnition fully off.

You need the binary pressure switch in any case so the additional cost for trinary switch is minimal.

[Concestor0]

Nobody here uses r12a Red Ten (or equivalent)? It's an easy transition from r12 and doesn't require changing hoses.

[wwest]

Originally Posted by Concestor0

Nobody here uses r12a Red Ten (or equivalent)? It's an easy transition from r12 and doesn't require changing hoses.

It appears that the hoses were never the real problem anyway. Lack of system high pressure limit/control is more likely. Prevent the compressor from over-running and thereby driving the system pressure to high, or BOILING the refrigerant in the rear lid condensor from radient and convection engine HEAT post engine shutdown.

Many systems of this same design era have a vent to atmosphere pressure release valve to prevent his from happening.

[dogman]

where can you get R 12

[Synchro Joe]

You can find R12 on line (ebay, craig's list, etc.) and occasionally even on this site. In the US, it's klegally supposed to go through a certified company or technician and installed by them. They can require that you provide a Section 609 Certification number. Shipping used to be OK by any means but air, not sure of the complexities of shipping to Nova Scotia from US though.
__________________________________________________ _____________________
"What type of certification is required to purchase refrigerant?
The following people can buy any type of ozone-depleting refrigerant under this sales restriction (for instance, R-11, R-12, R-123, R-22), except for "small cans" containing less than 20 pounds of R-12: Technicians certified to service stationary refrigeration and air-conditioning equipment by a Section 608 EPA-certified testing organization; and
Employers of a Section 608 certified technician (or the employer's authorized representative) if the employer provides the wholesaler with written evidence that he or she employs at least one properly certified technician. The following people can buy refrigerant found acceptable for use in a motor vehicle air conditioner (MVAC), including "small cans" containing less than 20 pounds of R-12: Technicians certified to service motor vehicle air-conditioners by a Section 609 EPA-certified testing organization.
__________________
Maybe try:
REFRIGERANT SERVICES INC.
15 Williams Avenue
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Canada B3B 1Xt
T. 902-468-4997 . F.902468-5102
TF. . 866-999-2653
www.rscool.com . E-mail: info@rscool.com

[kuehl]

Originally Posted by dogman

86/930/turbo Stealer checked AC and told me it has to be drained and re charged , they dont do it !Stuff in it is banned and has to be charged with new enviro freindly !

Just to clarify the first issue you have, advise if this is not correct;
is the type of refrigerant you have in the vehicle now is not R12 or R134a,
the shop you took it to said they can not recover that type of refrigerant because
it would contaminate their recovery machine?

If that is the issue you need to find an AC shop that has a 'trash' can; that is
30 lb can they recover mixed refrigerants in, they do not reuse that mix of refrigerants, and when the trash can gets full there is a
procedure they must follow to safely/properly dispose of it.

After your system is empty you can recharge it with R12 or R134a, the more common refrigerants.
There are preliminary 'things' you will want to do prior to recharging.
Feel free to drop a PM if you need more assistance.

[rusnak]

The first tip: don't go to the Porsche dealer. Go to an independent shop. Get R-12 re-filled.

[wally509]

Interesting timing on this thread, just yesterday I went to my daily driver mechanic who does all my regular A/C work about this. He also refused to do it for fear of contamination. He does still have his old R12 machine but claims w/o any R12 refrigerant, he can't do the conversion on it. R12 has been n/a in Wisconsin for maybe 10 years now. He couldn't even point me to any shops that still mess with these conversions.

So this left me wondering...what the heck to do in general and then even if I can find some way to convert the system over to 134a, will any shops ever service it seeing as there was R12 in this system at one time for fear of equipment contamination.

I purchased the car about 9 months ago and the A/C worked at that time. The classic car dealer I bought it from said they "fixed" it (they are in Illinois and still had access to R12). My guess is that they charged the system so it would run temporarily and kicked my ace out the door. Now the compressor kicks on and stays on and all the blowers run but the air really doesn't get cool even, let alone cold.

[kuehl]

Do NOT run the system knowing there is not enough refrigerant in it.
The compressor gets its lubrication from the refrigerant carrying the refrigerant
oil through the system. If you do not have sufficient refrigerant the compressor
will not get lubricated: seize, lock up, $$$$. The stock system does not have
a low pressure cut off switch to prevent the clutch from engaging if system pressures
are too low; you can add this later.

Disregarding converting the system to an approved alternative refrigerant, such as R134a for the moment.... Most repair shops whom have and R12 recovery machine will recover (remove) your
R12 provided that is what is in the system. So, if you can prove to the AC tech that system only has R12 (copy of previous repair records, donuts and coffee) he might work with you.

Otherwise, next choice is to find another shop; if you are a PCA member just look up your local
zone Techie guru and ask for a recommendation: PCA Zone 13

[wally509]

Well that's bogus. I always heard you were supposed to run the systems to keep the oil circulating even if it wasn't needed. Therefore, I would run it for 5-10 minutes every 4-6 weeks not really knowing if there was any refrigerant in there. No good deed goes unpunished I guess.

Sorry for posing this question as one should really just search the forum, but as you know any AC related thread turns into 20 pages of the wwest guy trying to sell trinary switches, BUT:

What is the general procedure here? Evac the system, change parts (hoses, receiver/drier, O-rings), charge with 134a? I mean having to convert over is inevitable due to the cost and availability of R12, no?

[kuehl]

Wally,
Don't know what you mean by bogus.

But in your situation tell us a bit more about your ride.
1) Year
2) Model (cab, coupe, targa)
3) Car color
4) Your driving climate temperatures in hotest season
5) Typical number of occupants
6) Daily driver or weekend warrior
7) Were you satisfied in the past with the performance
8) How long have you had the car
9) How many miles on the compressor
10) Is the ac system stock

[wwest]

More than severasl times now I have had conversions done successfully for less that $200. Certified A/C techician that will not work on US manufactured cars(???). NO pressure switches, just overnight evacuate, charge, and good to go.

The latest conversion was our 92 Ford AeroStar (AWD Ski bus), that when/how I learn of the vent to atmosphere pressure relief valve. R-12, vent to atmosphere..??

Yes, apparently that is not altogether unusual.

Which is why the EPA recommends, and Kuehl is on record as agreeing, that conversions to R-134a include a binary pressure switch, even absent some sort of BOV/Fuse. R-134a functions at significantly higher system pressures vs R-12, so the addition of a pressure switch might well save you some serious pocket change down the road even with all those "new" components, non-barrier hoses, etc, etc.

A/C "BOV's" are still available in the marketplace, 350 to 450 PSI.

Modern day A/C systems, mid-ninties and later, using R-134a are designed to operate, high pressure compressor cut-off, at just above 450PSI. So the "threat" for our systems converted to R-134a absent the addition of a pressure switch is very real.

Up until this "discovery" my extra fans operated in parallel with the compressor clutch.

The 88 Carrera has now been converted to the use of the trinary pressure switch, 24/7. Which not only allows the high side heat/pressure to rise to a more efficient heat transfer pressure/temperature before triggering the fans.

Not selling the trinary pressure switch as much as allowing you to avoid the cost of "barrier" type hoses. You should add a binary switch regardless.

[wwest]

Originally Posted by wally509

Well that's bogus.

I always heard you were supposed to run the systems to keep the oil circulating even if it wasn't needed.

Urban Legend, or an "old wives tale", take your pick. Going back many years, late sixties, Once I discovered that the A/C was being enabled in defrost/defog/demist mode even on a "cold" day I have always disconnected the compressor clutch wire throughout the winter period.

Therefore, I would run it for 5-10 minutes every 4-6 weeks not really knowing if there was any refrigerant in there. No good deed goes unpunished I guess.

Sorry for posing this question as one should really just search the forum, but as you know any AC related thread turns into 20 pages of the wwest guy trying to sell trinary switches, BUT:

What is the general procedure here? Evac the system, change parts (hoses, receiver/drier, O-rings), charge with 134a? I mean having to convert over is inevitable due to the cost and availability of R12, no?

Our factory A/C system designers took the KISS principle a bit to far, some sort of pressure control switch has been used to prevent compressor operation with coolish OAT "forever". COLD OAT = low system pressure.

[SilberUrS6]

One piece of solid advice I can give you on this AC business:

Don't any any attention to wwest. He might even mean well, but the stuff he suggests will, at the very least, cost you money to no benefit. At worst, his suggestions might actually damage your car.

If you want solutions, I can give you some direction, limited only by the size of your bank account.

PM me.

[Nick Triesch]

You A/C guys crack me up! All this talk about the need to recover refrigerants and not to contaminate your equipment when everyone's refrigerant leaks out into the air everyday! Tons of it!! All types mixed together. It is the same thing with home A/C units. This time of year you A/C folks are busy installing many types of refrigerants in home and office buildings and store equipment. Why? because it all leaks out over the years.