3 point belt retracting install on SWB advice

[1-ev.com]

Hey guys,

I have SWB 68 car and I've installed retracting front 3 point belt as it shown on picture, retractable part on the bottom. It works for me, but a this is a PITA to explain to the passenger how to use it.

on the pic, driver side and the front of the belt in my hand as i took pic and just going through click part... and part that going to B-pillar is just hangs there, not used...

Sorry for the pic, it could be confusing... but you've got the idea

My question is what is the best way to install them?

I would think to make some sort 2" L-bracket and move retractable on top facing as it sits now, so it could be pulled easy...


Thank you,
As always, I am VERY appreciated any help or advice.

[wayner]

On my 73 I installed a retractable belt so that

The retractor is on the bottom rear

The part you have up top I mount to the bottom next to the seat

The click part pulls across the passenger to the buckle

A metal loop midway along the belt (behind the click part) gets bolted up top (rather than bolting the end of the belt there)

[1-ev.com]

I think your car has b-pilar hole... mine does't do you have pics, Please, Thank you

[porterdog]

Hey, that looks unsafe.

The shoulder belt hard point must be at or above your shoulder else in a crash event the direction of pull of the belt tries to compress your spine.

Ungood.

Here's a Schroth page allowing a 20* drop; having worked in the belt industry for over a decade I would prefer it to be either level or above the shoulder, but Schroth know what they're talking about.

http://www.schroth.com/installation-instructions/en/index.html

[1-ev.com]

Thank you, LOT of good info :-)
I just wanted to point out that original lap belt is WAY unsafe and this is not a track car.

Have anyone done modifications to the b-pillar, as far as hole for the belt bolt?

Also, I will look into 5 points tho...

Originally Posted by porterdog

Hey, that looks unsafe.

The shoulder belt hard point must be at or above your shoulder else in a crash event the direction of pull of the belt tries to compress your spine.

Ungood.

Here's a Schroth page allowing a 20* drop; having worked in the belt industry for over a decade I would prefer it to be either level or above the shoulder, but Schroth know what they're talking about.

Installation- and Operating Instructions

[1-ev.com]

Here is PDF doc what I've fund on National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) website on p46 (p17 if you go direct to page in side PDF) of this doc: TP-210-9b.pdf

We are talking about "Type 2" Front Left/Right Belt as per p30. (it looks like 1st page on this doc, it starts from p30 ???)

[wayner]

Originally Posted by 1-ev.com

I think your car has b-pilar hole... mine does't do you have pics, Please, Thank you

Yes, I do have B pillars, but I think the routing would still be the same, even if you mounted lower

Best I have for now

[Morrie]

I do not believe the B pillars on a pre 1969 cars are structurally designed to accept the mount of a shoulder belt, or have the structural integrity either. We are left with compromises at best with the available factory mounting points. My retractors are mounted to the top bolts on my 68, but same issue with height of the shoulder belt. My thinking is a broken collar bone is better than going face on into the steering wheel or unwrapping and going through the windscreen.

If anyone has a solid safe and reasonably achievable modification to a stock car to improve this I am all ears.

[wayner]

If the top bolt is too low but is still being used for the retractor, why not use it for the intermediate support instead? Same level of safety but easier to explain to passengers to use correctly?

I know this is a 73 using the B pillar, but I am posting it for belt routing only
(ignore the tangle. Darned passengers).

[c0metdot]

Silly rig. Thats what I did.

Not the safe way to do it.

Square tube with stacked
washers.

Dont hit me.

[pksystems]

I think speedo added B-pillar belt mounts in his SWB project thread.

SWB 911R...the beginning

I did it the easy way.... full roll cage with 5 point harness mounts

[1-ev.com]

Originally Posted by Morrie

I do not believe the B pillars on a pre 1969 cars are structurally designed to accept the mount of a shoulder belt, or have the structural integrity either. We are left with compromises at best with the available factory mounting points. My retractors are mounted to the top bolts on my 68, but same issue with height of the shoulder belt. My thinking is a broken collar bone is better than going face on into the steering wheel or unwrapping and going through the windscreen.

If anyone has a solid safe and reasonably achievable modification to a stock car to improve this I am all ears.

Speaking of broken collar bone, i think that according to pic from TP-210-9b.pdf doc, the angle from top of the seat and top rear car point should be in "Acceptable Range" area, withing 40 deg shown...

by the way, the angle is about what you see on my 1st picture, it might be a 5 deg more, my guess it wound be around 25-30 deg TOTAL, if counting from the top of the seat/horizon line... withing 40 deg shown .... I will check it this weekend....

Originally Posted by pksystems

I think speedo added B-pillar belt mounts in his SWB project thread.

SWB 911R...the beginning

I did it the easy way.... full roll cage with 5 point harness mounts

This is Great Idea!, but do you think this hole will make b-pillar weaker, beside this b-pillar might not design to handle so much force while front impact. We might need '69 b-pillars welded in...
Just my thoughts...

I love to hear from guys who has 911, perhaps late'68 or '69, where those Factory mount 1st installed... if you guys have pics, similar to this, please...

[1-ev.com]

Were this Square tube sits in the safety belt system?

Originally Posted by c0metdot

Silly rig. Thats what I did.

Not the safe way to do it.

Square tube with stacked
washers.

Dont hit me.

[c0metdot]

[wayner]

You could also use a retractable belt like this one and anchor the retractor to the parcel shelf

Corbeau: 2-Inch Retractable Harness Belts

[dondarnell]

Ev - I struggled with the same issue and I think i did exhaustive research on the issue. What I found was that Porsche mounted a three point belt system exactly as you contemplate (but not retractable). I have a manual someplace I can share if you email me during the week. I'm still assembling my interior, so I haven't executed yet, so I don't have any pics to share.

I also came away with the conclusion that the B piller in a SWB will NOT take any kind take the load required in a crash. You would basically have no protection at all.

The other alternatives are a roll bar or a harness bar, though I don't think a roll bar is a wise idea in a street car, but that's a whole nother can of worms. I couldn't locate a SWB harness bar, but it couldn't be that hard to make.

[1-ev.com]

Don, PM sent with email, Thank you

Also,

Do you guys know if Reel supposed to be installed side-wise (behind driver seat), as on most cars OR it could be installed forward as on my 1st pic?

[1-ev.com]

Because, if I move it to the top, it will fit just 1 way, same as it on my 1st pic, where I imagine to do something like on my picture, of course calculating load on angle iron and getting correct steel...

DRIVER SIDE IS SHOWN:

[1-ev.com]

Originally Posted by dondarnell

I also came away with the conclusion that the B piller in a SWB will NOT take any kind take the load required in a crash. You would basically have no protection at all.

According to NHTSA document TP-210-9b.pdf (see post #5) on p35(7of27), where it states that load could be 3000lb to 5000lb on the fasteners... WOW

[c0metdot]

Craig's Seatbelt Installation